No-Knock Warrant in NJ = 4 Cops Shot, 2 Seriously

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308Mike
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No-Knock Warrant in NJ = 4 Cops Shot, 2 Seriously

Post by 308Mike »

This no-knock warrant crap is WAYYYYYYYYYY out of control. Why am I so skeptical of what they're releasing to the media as being accurate??? Everything seems to be too vague and incomplete, just enough to stop people from asking too many questions about what REALLY happened and the information leading up to the raid. This may be legit and may be a snow job, I haven't made up my mind yet, but the LACK of news information after the raid is rather disturbing.

Here's one article:
4 police officers shot executing search warrant in New Jersey; 2 seriously wounded
Bureau News
September 24th, 2009

4 NJ police officers shot serving search warrant

LAKEWOOD, N.J. — Gunfire erupted as a police tactical squad executed a no-knock search warrant in a New Jersey suburb Thursday, leaving four officers and a suspect shot.

One Lakewood police officer who was shot in the face and another who was shot in the foot were taken to a hospital, Deputy Chief Michael Mohel of the Ocean County Prosecutor’s Office said. Two others sustained minor injuries when they were struck in their bulletproof vests.

The suspect, Jamie Gonzalez, 39, was taken to a hospital with multiple gunshot wounds, Mohel said.

There was no word on their conditions and the names of the officers have not been released.

Police had planned to search the home in the town about 35 miles east of Trenton for narcotics and weapons, Mohel said.

The shooting comes more than two months after Jersey City police Det. Marc DiNardo was shot in the face storming an apartment where two armed robbery suspects were holed up. Four other officers were wounded in the gun battle and the suspects were killed.

DiNardo was taken off life support and pronounced dead one day before his 38th birthday.

Lakewood was once known as the resort in the pines for wealthy New Yorkers in the 1800s and early 1900s. The Rockefellers and Goulds built mansions there. The township has a large Orthodox Jewish population and has one of the largest yeshivas in the world, Beth Medrash Govoha.

In recent decades, some sections of Lakewood have been plagued by troubles with drugs and gangs.
And here's another:
4 Officers Shot in Raid at New Jersey Home

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: September 24, 2009

LAKEWOOD, N.J. (AP) — A gunman opened fire early Thursday on officers who burst into a home in central New Jersey during a drug and gun raid, wounding four officers, one critically, while spraying bullets from atop a staircase, the authorities said.

Patrolman Jonathan Wilson of the Lakewood Police Department was shot in the face and was in critical but stable condition at a hospital. Officials were hopeful that he would survive, but said he was in danger of losing an eye. “He is in good spirits, and he’s communicating,” said Marlene Lynch Ford, the Ocean County prosecutor.

She identified the gunman as Jamie Gonzalez, 39, and said he had been shot many times and was in critical condition.

Lt. Greg Meyer was shot in the foot, and was in good condition at the hospital after surgery. Two other Lakewood officers, Sgt. Louis Sasso and Patrolman Leonard Nieves Sr. were treated and released.

Those participating in the raid included officers from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the New Jersey State Police, the Ocean County prosecutor’s office and the Lakewood Police Department. Armed with a search warrant that did not require them to knock first, the team entered a single-family split-level home in Lakewood Township, about 40 miles southeast of Trenton, at about 2:25 a.m., officials said.

The officers knocked down the door with a battering ram and were going upstairs when Mr. Gonzalez started shooting, the authorities said.

The house was searched for evidence, but Ms. Ford would not say whether any drugs or additional weapons had been found, nor would she describe the underlying drug and weapons case.

Mr. Gonzalez was charged with four counts of attempted murder, as well as possession of illegal weapons and receiving stolen property.

The .357 Magnum used to shoot the officers had been reported stolen, Ms. Ford said.

A second man who was in the house was also in custody, but had not been charged as of Thursday evening. The first assistant Ocean County prosecutor, Ronald DeLigny, said it did not appear that the other man had been involved in the shooting, but added that he might be implicated in the guns and drugs case.
Now, just how many guns can you think of that can "SPRAY BULLETS" of .357 Magnum? No doubt the suspect was shot many times and in critical condition instead of DEAD is because they probably used pea-shooter 9mm and hosed him down with their MP5's.

As far as the suspect is concerned, he gave a pretty good accounting of himself by hitting four officers from a relatively stable and stationary position at the top of the staircase.

I hope all the officers come out okay, but even this incident still makes me question the pervasiveness of using these no-knock warrants. I'd REALLY like to see just what information they had taken to the judge to get the no-knock warrant approved. For all we know he was likely a petty drug "dealer" who kept his friends supplied and no more, and perhaps committed a weapons violation ala-Randy Weaver style. That kind of prosecution does NOT warrant these kind of tactics. From what they've released so far, I can't see the need for a tactical team and no-knock warrant being served. Turn off the water to his house (and close the house valve to the curb), turn off the power, do a regular warrant service announcing yourselves and that the house is surrounded and provide ID along with a copy of the warrant.

For the cop's sake, I sure hope this is the guy they were really looking for and he's dirty as hell, but I sure hope they have a LOT more than what they've provided to the media - because they sure haven't impressed me and especially using those tactics.
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Ben Rumson
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Re: No-Knock Warrant in NJ = 4 Cops Shot, 2 Seriously

Post by Ben Rumson »

One certainly doesn't "spray" with a revolver.

The entry tactics the police use seem to me to be counter effective on keeping themselves alive and or uninjured. I think we've all seen how they enter on the various cop/dea/swat shows. They enter the house lined up in a row less than a foot apart from each other. The entire line moves together with the guys in back almost pushing. Only person that can see whats going on is the guy in front.

All a bad guy has to do is stand at the top of the stairs (like this guy did) and aim at the front of the line. The first guy goes down, the second guy is fully exposed (all of their heads are exposed anyways), second guy gets shot and the fifth guy in the back is still pushing the others in to get shot. Hell, just aim high at the front of the pack and the variations in accuracy will put hits on most of the entry team. It's almost like the stories we would hear about the Germans and Japanese lining up people front to back to save money in ammo during executions.

The tactic might be successful in an overwhelm before they know we're here manner, but if the bad guy is ready, he can take out the whole bunch in short order.

No knocks may have there time and place, but they are used far to often and the entry tactic can be easily defeated by a person who is prepared and has nothing to lose anyways.

ETA: I'm not condoning shooting law enforcement.
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The Wizard
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Re: No-Knock Warrant in NJ = 4 Cops Shot, 2 Seriously

Post by The Wizard »

Ben Rumson wrote:One certainly doesn't "spray" with a revolver.

The entry tactics the police use seem to me to be counter effective on keeping themselves alive and or uninjured. I think we've all seen how they enter on the various cop/dea/swat shows. They enter the house lined up in a row less than a foot apart from each other. The entire line moves together with the guys in back almost pushing. Only person that can see whats going on is the guy in front.
I cant say how LEOs train, but i know for soldiers to have a good room clearing team you need several things:
- a team you know well, you literally trust your life to everyone on the team, you have to understand how everyone thinks and know that everyone knows their job
-train together all the time, if you get a new guy, the team will be reduced in effectiveness until everyone, learns everyone else again.
-Static jobs, if you are the breacher then you breach, the point is point ect, cross train in case someone gets hit but with EHR (extreme high risk) situations, no new stuff.
-Communication, you have to relay information, is you see a threat call it out, you might miss your shot or have a weapon malf and need someone to cover down for you while you fix the problem.

ok that said, you are correct in that everyone is close together and moving as a single unit, but when done properly, 360 degree security is established, everyone has a "lane" that is your first priority and the rest of your field of vision is your second priority. if a threat enters your lane, it should be neutralized quickly and back to checking for other threats.

IMO, YMMV, ect, this is just some of my observations from what i have learned
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But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Precision
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Re: No-Knock Warrant in NJ = 4 Cops Shot, 2 Seriously

Post by Precision »

4 hits from 5 or 6 shots. Not my definition of SPRAYING.

I wonder if this is another case of, oops wrong house and he was a "gun nut".

Not happy that a cop is likely to lose an eye, but also not happy with the LACK of information. Usually when we don't see a trumpet blaring, "20 kilos of cocaine and an arsenal of guns recovered", there was a police screw up on which house. Not to mention, the guy assuming he lives will likely go down big for using a gun in Jersey regardless of anything else.
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Netpackrat
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Re: No-Knock Warrant in NJ = 4 Cops Shot, 2 Seriously

Post by Netpackrat »

Not to mention, that the revolver having been stolen doesn't necessarily implicate the raidee in any wrongdoing. Buying a stolen gun is a risk run by anyone purchasing in a private sale. Sure, you can have the serial number run by the local cops, but then you've defeated one of the purposes of the private sale. Particularly if one of your goals is to avoid compliance with ridiculous local restrictions on the right of self defense.

If it turns out that the cops did have the wrong address, and/or the guy was not breaking any law besides NJ's unconstitutional weapons laws, then the only tragedy will have been that he wasn't using a rifle or a shotgun.
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MarkD
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Re: No-Knock Warrant in NJ = 4 Cops Shot, 2 Seriously

Post by MarkD »

Netpackrat: This was in NJ, there are no private sales of firearms. All sales go thru a dealer.
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Netpackrat
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Re: No-Knock Warrant in NJ = 4 Cops Shot, 2 Seriously

Post by Netpackrat »

MarkD wrote:Netpackrat: This was in NJ, there are no private sales of firearms. All sales go thru a dealer.
That's what I thought.
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TheIrishman
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Re: No-Knock Warrant in NJ = 4 Cops Shot, 2 Seriously

Post by TheIrishman »

MarkD wrote:Netpackrat: This was in NJ, there are no private sales of firearms. All sales go thru a dealer.

Private sales are completely legal in jersey. All that's needed to sell a long gun is an FID card and ID(drivers license), and a (purchasing)permit added for handguns.
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Malthorn
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Re: No-Knock Warrant in NJ = 4 Cops Shot, 2 Seriously

Post by Malthorn »

Anyone else get ideas on how to build a "knock" proof door running thru their heads when they read a story like this?
Dedicated_Dad
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Re: No-Knock Warrant in NJ = 4 Cops Shot, 2 Seriously

Post by Dedicated_Dad »

Many of my closest friends are cops of some flavor, and G*d knows I don't want to see anything happen to them...

But...

This ninja crap is out of control. Frankly, I think we'll be MUCH better off as a nation when this ninja crap stops.

Busting in my door while I am sleeping is a good way to get yourself shot.

While I'm sad for these men and their families, I'm also equally sad for the Republic.

There's simply no good reason they couldn't surround the place then call to say "we're out here, you're not getting out, let's do this the easy way." Further, they could simply wait for him to leave and take him down. There are many, many options which don't involve busting in at oh-dark-thirty, and all of them lessen the odds of getting the wrong house, all of them lessen the odds of killing someone.

DD
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