Behold the gunsafe! (Lots of photos)

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Denis
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Behold the gunsafe! (Lots of photos)

Post by Denis »

Behold the gunsafe!


In this thread I asked for your suggestions about moving a large gunsafe.

Well, yesterday, the monster finally arrived. (Click the thumbnails for a bigger version).

It came in a big truck, with a big hoist on the back.

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It was rolled off using a pallet truck and the hoist.

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The riggers measured the garage door, and decided to try bringing it inside (down the slope) in an upright position, using a "lift and roll" device.

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The lift and roll is two halves of a frame, which are attached to the object to be moved with a ratcheted strap. Each side is fitted with an "L" plate, which hooks under the corner of the object, and an hydraulic bottle-jack, which lifts the object until the wheels have clearance to roll. The wheels are steerable, and can be turned ninety degrees to brake the movement.

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Although the safe weighs 1300 kilos (+/-2900 pounds), it can be rolled by two men using the device, plus some boards and ramps to get over kerbs.

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Because the cargo had to go down a slope, the riggers attached a come-along to their truck, and a strop around the safe and the lift-and-roll, to allow everything to be lowered under gravity in a controlled fashion.

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I didn't get photos of the next step, since things didn't go quite as planned, and I was busy... Although the height of the safe plus the lift-and-roll was less on the flat than the maximum opening height of the garage door, it was going in at an angle because of the down slope. That meant that the leading edge of the safe went in, but the rest got stuck half-way in, because it was tilted upwards. (There may have been some profanity at this juncture).

Back to the drawing board...


The riggers decided to lay the safe onto its back on a pallet, roll it downslope lying on the pallet truck, and tip it back upright once inside the garage.

We winched the whole shebang back up the slope to the truck.

To tip the safe, they strapped a pallet to its back, then used the pallet truck to lift the front of the safe, tipping it backwards against the hoist on the back of their delivery vehicle. The hoist took the weight, and lowered the safe into a lying position on top of the pallet.

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Once more, strops went around the safe, and the pallet truck and come-along were used to lower the cargo down the slope.

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This time, it went in with no trouble (other than a hefty heave to clear the small kerb at the threshold).

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Getting the safe back upright was the trickiest part of the whole operation. Again, I was kept busy helping the riggers, so I didn't get photos... They used the pallet truck to lift the top end of the safe from the floor. As it was raised, they put progressively larger wooden blocks under it, just shy of the mid-point, such that gravity was keeping the foot on the floor, but the top was hanging in the air. (Imagine an extremely heavy see-saw or teeter/toter).

Once the pallet truck was as high as it would go, the three of us got under the top end, and did a brute force "snatch and jerk" to get the safe off the fulcrum and standing upright.

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One it was standing again, it was reasonably simple, using a roller pry-bar (stevedore, cargo lever) to get the safe back onto the forks of the pallet truck, and to roll it into its final position along the wall.

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Those gentleman are the riggers. The elder (whose muscles look like he lifts safes in his free time for fun) was in charge, and he approached the task like a mountain of calm. Everything happened slowly, carefully, and without fuss. They had all the gear they needed on the truck, and they obviously knew their business. The whole procedure took two hours, including a short coffee and smoke break. I gave the guys a tip, and they certainly earned it. It is well worth letting the professionals do this heavy moving stuff.

Here's one more of the safe in its new home.

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I quickly threw in a few guns to try it for size. :-) The big ones at the left are Swiss Model 1889 and 1911 rifles - by far the longest arms I have. Even they have plenty of headroom.

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Here's the manufacturer's nameplate. Made in Germany in 1957. The manufacturer serviced it for me, and they say it's mechanically as good as new. It needs a good cleaning, in and out, and the paintwork is a bit scruffy, so I bought some dark-green "Hammerite" paint to give it a sprucing-up.

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I didn't waste any time, and called the police yesterday. The friendly firearms officer visited this morning before work, and pronounced my firearms storeage arrangments "secure", so I should have no further hassle on that front for a while! I might ask the alarm guy to hook up a door sensor to the safe when he next visits, just for good measure.

Now, once I get it cleaned and painted, how am I going to set up the inside of the safe for optimal storage and easy access?

The upper compartment is the obvious choice for handguns, but what about racks for rifles and ammunition below? Any suggestions?
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Erik
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Re: Behold the gunsafe! (Lots of photos)

Post by Erik »

Denis wrote:I didn't get photos of the next step, since things didn't go quite as planned, and I was busy... Although the height of the safe plus the lift-and-roll was less on the flat than the maximum opening height of the garage door, it was going in at an angle because of the down slope. That meant that the leading edge of the safe went in, but the rest got stuck half-way in, because it was tilted upwards. (There may have been some profanity at this juncture).
:lol: You should have made a video of it, complete with sound! I can imagine their reaction when they came to the door and realized their error in calculation.
Denis wrote: Now, once I get it cleaned and painted, how am I going to set up the inside of the safe for optimal storage and easy access?

The upper compartment is the obvious choice for handguns, but what about racks for rifles and ammunition below? Any suggestions?
Some safes sold here comes with the option of compartments at the side. It's just a divide in the center and then shelfs on the side of it. Then the rifles are stored against the side and the divide rather than against the back wall. It seems to provide plenty of room and versitility.
SP88_ORIG.jpg
Another option would be to have shelves against the back wall and the rifle racks in front of it. Ammunition you need often on the top shelfs, and lesser used stuff at the bottom where you need to remove the rifles to get to it.

YMMV, but it sounds like a good idea to me.
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Darrell
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Re: Behold the gunsafe! (Lots of photos)

Post by Darrell »

Finally! Congrats, Denis! :)
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mekender
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Re: Behold the gunsafe! (Lots of photos)

Post by mekender »

The upper compartment is the obvious choice for handguns, but what about racks for rifles and ammunition below? Any suggestions?
Are you required to lock the ammo up? If not, I wouldn't. Ammo when placed inside a tight container such as a safe can easily become a bomb at high enough temperatures. I wouldnt think that will be a problem with that safe but you never really know.
I might ask the alarm guy to hook up a door sensor to the safe when he next visits, just for good measure.
I dont know if that would even be worth it. Anyone cracking that safe is either a pro or is using power tools. Either way, they are going to make sure that any alarms are not a problem before they crack the safe or they would just force you to open the safe for them. Realistically, if that safe is secured to the floor and the wall, it will stop 99% of any would be thieves. The remaining 1% wouldnt be stopped by anything you do. Remember the safe is not there to stop the truly dedicated thief but rather stop the average criminal. The main point is to make it so hard to get into the safe that the criminals decide to pick easier targets.

One other note, dont store tools near the safe. It wouldnt make much sense to store a saw or a prybar right next to the safe, dont give potential thieves any way to make their job easy.

As for racks for rifles, there are lots of places online to look at. Also I seem to remember some place that was selling expandable plastic rods with Velcro on one end designed to be stuck to the roof of a safe and dropped down inside the barrels of rifles to make sure they didnt move around. If i recall, they were quite cheap.
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Denis
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Re: Behold the gunsafe! (Lots of photos)

Post by Denis »

Erik wrote:Some safes sold here comes with the option of compartments at the side. It's just a divide in the center and then shelfs on the side of it. Then the rifles are stored against the side and the divide rather than against the back wall. It seems to provide plenty of room and versitility.
SP88_ORIG.jpg
Another option would be to have shelves against the back wall and the rifle racks in front of it. Ammunition you need often on the top shelfs, and lesser used stuff at the bottom where you need to remove the rifles to get to it.

YMMV, but it sounds like a good idea to me.
Those are more or less the options I had in mind. Anything I do will probably involve me fabricating shelving from MDF, and I'm no cabinet-maker, so it will be fairly rudimentary...
mekender wrote:Are you required to lock the ammo up? If not, I wouldn't.
Technically, no - the ammunition just has to be in a secure place. At the moment, I have it in a wooden cabinet acroos the garage from the new safe. I might just padlock the cabinet, and call that good.
Denis wrote:I might ask the alarm guy to hook up a door sensor to the safe when he next visits, just for good measure.
mekender wrote:Anyone cracking that safe is either a pro or is using power tools. Either way, they are going to make sure that any alarms are not a problem before they crack the safe or they would just force you to open the safe for them.
Actually, that's kind of why I wanted the alarm connection. If the safe is opened by baddies, it'll likely be either (a) when no-one is home, and they have time to work on it or (b) because they have put me or Mrs Denis under duress. Either way, I'd like the police to be called. As you say, though, sophisticated baddies would disable the alarm first...
mekender wrote:One other note, dont store tools near the safe.
Alas, the the power tools also live in the garage. I suppose I'll padlock that cabinet too. The obvious presence of breaking-in tools was something the police officer checked for this morning. He wasn't too worried about it, though, as the safe would defeat opportunistic thieves, even armed with my tools, and the professionsals would either bring their own, or use other methods to get it opened.
mekender wrote:I seem to remember some place that was selling expandable plastic rods with Velcro on one end designed to be stuck to the roof of a safe and dropped down inside the barrels of rifles to make sure they didnt move around.
Thanks! I also remember seeing something like that - I must try my search-foo.
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mekender
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Re: Behold the gunsafe! (Lots of photos)

Post by mekender »

Regarding the tools, I have seen two ways of opening a safe with brute force. One is to take a long pry bar and simply pry the door open, this works best if the safe is laying on it's back and with a proper 4 to 6 foot bar can be done to an average safe in only a few minutes.

The other is to tip the safe on it's side or front and cut through the safe with an axe. Surprisingly this can also be done by an average person in only a few minutes.

Those would work well on just about any retail level safe. Your safe looks to be a significant level above retail level.

If I had to guess, I would say that the metal exterior is probable at least 2mm if not thicker and probably reinforced with thicker bands or a mesh inside. Behind that is probably some kind of gypsum board and then perhaps another layer of metal on the inside, probably thin. I would also guess that the locking bolts on your safe sink into cast or milled sockets instead of just stamped cutouts in the metal shell making them significantly harder to get through by prying than a normal safe.

Barring someone that actually knows how to crack the lock or drill the safe, If I were to guess the most likely method of attack to your safe would be to use power tools. Either a circular saw with a metal cutting blade or a drill and a saws all with a metal cutting blade. Either way I think it would probably take an hour or two to make any significant progress. Explosives and torches don't work very well because they tend to destroy the contents of the safe.

One thing I see, in the first picture of the safe, there is a rectangle on the black side of it. Is that just a surface mark or is that an access panel or is it a place where the safe has been cut and re-welded?
“I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.” - Norman Thomas, a six time candidate for president for the Socialist Party, 1944
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Denis
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Re: Behold the gunsafe! (Lots of photos)

Post by Denis »

mekender wrote:Those would work well on just about any retail level safe. Your safe looks to be a significant level above retail level.

...

One thing I see, in the first picture of the safe, there is a rectangle on the black side of it. Is that just a surface mark or is that an access panel or is it a place where the safe has been cut and re-welded?
Well, until I bought it, the safe was in use by the German navy for classified documents, so I suppose it met their pretty stringent military standards. The sockets for the locking bars look like they were milled, and it's heavily fire-proofed (there's even a warning plate that says only qualified service personnel should expose the asbestos layer inside). The lock is by Theodor Kromer (now part of Unican / Kaba) of Freiburg, in the Black Forest. Kromer is/was a main supplier of high-security locks to banks, prisons, safe-and vault manufacturers, and the German post and railways.

You have sharp eyes; the rectangular mark on the side is the remains of Scotch Tape where someone stuck an A4 sheet of paper to the side of the safe!
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Denis
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Re: Behold the gunsafe! (Lots of photos)

Post by Denis »

mekender wrote:I seem to remember some place that was selling expandable plastic rods with Velcro on one end designed to be stuck to the roof of a safe and dropped down inside the barrels of rifles to make sure they didnt move around. If i recall, they were quite cheap.
Is this site what you meant?
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Gunnuts
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Re: Behold the gunsafe! (Lots of photos)

Post by Gunnuts »

Hmmmm....looks like its already filling up to me. Better get another one on order. ;)
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JAG2955
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Re: Behold the gunsafe! (Lots of photos)

Post by JAG2955 »

There's these too:

http://www.gun-racks.com/

It makes them more accessible, but it takes up more room.
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