More Power muahahahahahahahaha

[Darrell]

My '68 GTO had the high performance 400 cu engine, 350 or 375 hp IIRC. My twin brother got a new Trans Am, a '76 or '77 I think. Nice car, but its 400 cu engine made 180 hp. Mine would outrun his, but his would outhandle mine.

[HTRN]

Chris, what you said about building pre 72 cars down south, well that applied up here as well..

But then I was a member of the socalled "Kar Kulture", where drinking beer, and pulling engines at 3AM on a friday night was considered normal...

Part of it was a not so surreptious ring of knowing who to go to for your smog check - a 20 to the mechanic ensured it passed, no matter what was under the hood - even if you owned a mid 80s Buick that had a big block(more than one locally, actually )

I think that you may be a little high with what's considered "streetable" though - 450HP in a 383 is commonplace, and 400HP in a 350, beyond which it starts getting a bit rough to drive everyday. Part of it is Fuel injection, the other half is better head design(remember when the Vortec's started coming out?), along with the advent of hydraulic roller cams - lift that would be more at home on a boulevard warrior in the 80s, suddenly were usable in a daily driver. I do remember seeing articles on 450HP 383s when they were suddenly the hot new thing, in the early/mid 90s, with it pulling 17" of vac..(still got the article clipped somewhere, they referred to the engine as the "dragon slayer")The thing is, it was an expensive, piece together affair, and not a crate motor. With big blocks, it was the advent of cheap cast stroker cranks, and the combination of affordable aftermarket blocks, and the final dryup of factory blocks from used sources in the mid 90s. It became a matter of "If you want to build a big block and don't have a core, might as well build a 572".

And forget dominators - That's 70s tech. Edelbrock has a ProEFI setup with a Throttlebody that has a 4500 pattern(Dominator pattern) that flows 2000CFM.. Throttle response on Mega inch Chevys and Fords is supposedly unreal.


HTRN

[Lokidude]

Heh, makes my 100hp naturally aspirated VW seem so attainable. Out of the 1300 that's currently onboard, it'd be 1.26 hp/cube, but that's not likely to happen. However, out of the 1800 I want to build, it's only .91 hp/cube, which I should be able to readily accomplish. And in a sub-1500 lb car, it should be a little rocket.

[HTRN]

And forget dominators - That's 70s tech. Edelbrock has a ProEFI setup with a Throttlebody that has a 4500 pattern(Dominator pattern) that flows 2000CFM.. Throttle response on Mega inch Chevys and Fords is supposedly unreal.


HTRN

Have you seem the ultradominators? 1250cfm a piece at stock pressures, with tuners raming them up to 1500. In a dual setup, even more than that TBI flows; though I'd guess it's got bogholes in the powerband where the injection doesn't.

It's still a mechanical secondary carb - okay for the dragstrip, sucks on the street. A big vac secondary is a better choice(Barry Grant's various Speed Demon Carbs, and King Demons/available up to 1200CFM/)Remember, there's a max effective usable cfm. I wouldn't bother with anything that big(2000CFM) on anything but the largest firebreathing motors*. The old rule of CFM = Cubic Inches x RPM / 2 / 1728. That formula gives the needed carb size of a 572CID, 5500RPM motor of only 910CFM. Go too big, and you suddenly have the throttle response of cooked spagetti. Go to small and the engine chokes for fuel/air...

*Personally, I always thought the really big TBI dominator patterns forte' was on Blower motors - big ones(IE 540CID with a 8 or 10-71.. Or even one of the newer monster Screwchargers


HTRN

[HTRN]

Dude, seriously no joke, they are putting out 364 cube LS3s at 400hp, and 376 cube LS3 motors at 436hp with straight factory parts, no tune. You can buy the 436hp straight from the factory for $9k with everything but the exhaust and ECU.

Hmm. Interesting. I haven't been paying attention to "street" motors of any flavor in awhile, most of my interest is in exotic tech - I blame Anthony Defeo - He kept trying to talk me into a outlaw fueler.

Most of what I have been reading about involves the various LS-7 developments - notably the Warhawk block and GM's "LS-X" block(this one in particular has got my attention - 4.25" bore, 4.5" stroke = , that's 511CID for the math challenged). Add in one of the nasty heads that have come out for it(World's 12º "Warhawk" head, Twisted flow 13.5º "Gen X Street/Strip") and a Centrifugal supercharger, or better yet, a High Helix 8-71... Put that in a Chevelle, C3 Vette, or First gen Camaro, along with 4L80 transmission.. A 1000HP, car that's at least driveable, and might even get 13MPG!

Umm, that's pretty much what I was talking about from a carb standpoint. Dual carbs and BIGASS blower. I wouldn't ever think of that on a street motor.

Honestly, anything more than a single 1150 is a waste on just about any street motor; and rarely does a motor need more than a 750.

Blame Anthony again - I rarely associate "-71" with "Carburetor". More like "Bird catcher". Oh! BDS does make a "Street EFI "catcher" for blowers - Linky If nothing else, it's significantly shorter than a carb/airfilter setup. What could be done, is use one of BDS's efi blower injector setups, with the 4500 pattern Throttle body...

HTRN

[Rich]

My 69 Camaro Z-28 was rated at 295hp out of 302 cubes, IIRC. Factory stock with an Edelbrock high rise intake manifold and a Holley 4150 4-barrel (available for Trans-Am holomogation) and a weird crossflow exhaust. Of course, I doubt the 295 was a true figure, but that car would motivate. Shortly after the break in period, I went to Nevada (no speed limit at the time), found an empty stretch of highway and let the ponies loose. I buried the speedometer (120 mph max showing), and had significant pedal left, when the front end started to float on me. I eased it on down and coasted until about 40 or so, then gently applied the brakes. My best guesstimate is somewhere in the 135-140 range, as I had specified a rear end gearing for better highway cruise. I had no interest in drag racing.

Kept the car for over ten years, then sold it to some guy in Georgia who was building a race car. Wish I hadn't though, it was one of the two best cars I ever owned. The other was a 64 Impala SS with the Vette 327 and Muncie four speed.

[HTRN]

Cars in the 60s and earlier were rated by "gross" HP - IE; Every power robbing accessory stripped off.

On the other hand, does anybody think that's what they actually dyno'd at? I remember when one of the car rags built a repro "Earthquake 88", who's original HP rating was a modest 425HP. They got 525HP out of it. Keep in mind, that at the time, GM was being run by "good family men" and not hot rodders, add in the pressure from the Insurance Industry so guys like Duntov used to, shall we say "fudge" the numbers a bit?

I wouldn't be a bit suprised if your 302 got 300HP at the rear wheels..



HTRN

[Aglifter]

FYI, at least the one first gen I'm passingly familiar w., was gear limited to 127... and went that speed on a regular basis... (Possibly w. a crazy buddy in something German and convertible drafting behind...)

[arctictom]

1968 cured me of the more power thing , I had a 67 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door hard top , with a taxi cab motor (318 v8 with and automatic ) we shoveled a 440 with 3 deuces in and a 4 speed B&M Hydro Stick with a Mopar adapter plate , I could Light the slicks up to 130 , and talk about snap your neck. Aaaaaaa back in the 60s Vetts , hemi Cudas , and the legendary Shelby cobra .

[HTRN]

I really, really liked fast cars.

No really fast.

I'm talking stupid fast - the kind of things that make ones question "got enough dynamite there, Butch"? My personal moment was when the little voice in my head was telling me "Do you really want to stuck in a 1800lb rollerskate, with 9000RPM, 3000HP screaming Hemi by your feet, the family jewels hanging over a(potentially) self destructing transmission, while 15 gallons of liquid mayhem sitting in front of said sceaming hemi, that's all but guaranteed to go up in a rather memorable fireball if said hemi decides to "hiccup"?

So of course, at that point I started thinking "Well, maybe a Alky Altered to run fast brackets?"