Is your cell phone really "off?"

Ken 2023 · Post by **Ken 2023** » Sun May 31, 2009 11:05 pm

Greetings all,

I just got back from a school-related trip to the middle-east, specifically Jordan (that'll be another post when I get around to it).

Anyways, here's my story: When I got to Logan intl to depart on my journey I turned off my phone, which I had charged just before I left. My reasoning was that I wouldn't need to use it on my trip, but might need to call for a ride when I got back. I did not turn it on at from that point (the 18th) until I got back on the 29th.

Fast forward to my arrival back at home, I fish my phone out of my backpack to check messages. It doesn't have enough power to turn on, which I wrote off to carrying it around in the heat for a week and a half.

Finally I charge it, and I have 4 text messages. 2 are my parents. One of the others says:

From:762-6
Welcome to Israel. Dial 001 and 10 Digit Number to call the US. Local calls Dial 0+the Number.
Tue, May 19, 12:10 pm

and then the other one is from the same place and gives me a number to call for roaming support.

Now bear with me, because I know very little about cell phones, and maybe this is common knowledge or I'm just wrong. I came up with two possible conclusions. One is that even when my cell phone is turned off, it is still sending gps or some other form of tracking data. The other is that it somehow turned itself on (which requires several seconds holding the "end" key) and just wore out the battery that way, or maybe in my delirium from jet-lag and subsiding on hummus I turned it on, but that seems like I'm second guessing myself.

I figured this is the right group to share this with (and hopefully the right section of the forum). If my tinfoil hat conclusion is correct, then... well I'm not sure what to think.

mekender · Post by **mekender** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:24 am

One is that even when my cell phone is turned off, it is still sending gps or some other form of tracking data.

on some phones, yes

The other is that it somehow turned itself on (which requires several seconds holding the "end" key) and just wore out the battery that way

that is entirely likely too

arctictom · Post by **arctictom** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:51 am

Pull Battery, and simm chip, capacitors in phone can provide enough charge for location.

Post by **Combat Controller** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:07 am

Most cell phones over the last 10 years won't turn off. This also allows for spooky people to listen in on you if they want, even if the phone id "off". You have to pull the battery, but with iphones and what not you can't even do that.

workinwifdakids · Post by **workinwifdakids** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:56 pm

IIRC, someone shortly after 9/11 leaked that the dotgov had figured out a way to trigger the "mic on" feature on cellular phones. Now that technology is available for the average user.

Ken 2023 · Post by **Ken 2023** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:53 pm

I guess the questions that remain are:

Who has access to this data?
Who can gain access to this data?
Has it ever actually been used to track someone or spy on conversations?

It's almost funny if you really think about it. Most of America voluntarily buys these tracking devices and carries them everywhere, present for every conversation. Why would anyone need to plant a bug if you carry your own with you at all times?

Does anyone abandon or disable their phone for sensitive conversations, maybe of the "right-wing extremist" or "Constitution Fanatic" nature?

I remember reading interesting things about cell phones in Enemies Foreign and Domestic, which is why I assumed what I did. I wasn't sure of the truth of it at the time.

Post by **Combat Controller** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:21 pm

There is a reason sensitive conversations take place in a hermetically sealed room. You want no glass to vibrate for a laser, no RF emissions so a faraday cage is de rigur. Even worse than just eves dropping you have to worry about people and what they will pass on if you really want to be secure, so keep it to yourself if it is actionable intelligence.

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:56 pm

Some people won't buy a GM car now because of Onstar. Even if you DON'T pay for service, Onstar can still turn on the phone and monitor you. Not saying they do, just remember the commercials where the airbag deploys and they call the driver!

mekender · Post by **mekender** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:16 pm

CByrneIV wrote:
Ken 2023 wrote: Does anyone abandon or disable their phone for sensitive conversations, maybe of the "right-wing extremist" or "Constitution Fanatic" nature?
In my work environment, no "sensitive" conversation occurs with any kind of electronic device in the room. Lots of folks here work under similar conditions.

having worked for a couple of telco's (not POTS companies) i can assure you that every byte of data is recorded... i fully believe that cell phones are the same...

postmanone · Post by **postmanone** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:27 pm

What if one placed the phone in a small metal box?

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