Thinking about a sustainable homestead in MT or WY

[MelodyByrne]

We're planning on moving onto our own acreage at some point with independent power, water, and food in case of whatever. We'd prefer somewhere mountainous and fairly dry since both of us have a problem with too much humidity and we'd like to be off the beaten path; but still have accessible services, emergency medicine etc....

We've been looking at New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, and Colorado and all of them have their good and bad points.

More recently we've been looking at the legislative actions (or lack thereof) in Montana and Wyoming and these two states have suddenly become an option for us.

Chris doesn't mind bad winters, and I'm willing to learn to deal with them.

My questions for the forum members from Montana and Wyoming are:

What is the political climate like? We know about the laws, but how does the average person feel about them?

Can the average hobby farmer grow useful crops there?

Are the prices of land (100 acres or more) reasonable there?

What are the busybodies (bureaucrats, city councils, school boards) like there?

Is anybody going to bat an eye if we set up our own private shooting range and airstrip?

[Termite]

If you are serious about independant power, don't forget to include solar isolation(table 1), (table 2), and average wind speed/energy: wind chart into your criteria of locations.

EDIT: Ya'll have probably already considered this.

[Aglifter]

Years ago, my family had a ranch in MT -- MT's politics are different -- very good on guns, but lots of "outdoor socialists" (Right to hunt/fish folks, other eco-morons), and the usual vestige of the first wave of hippies which infected all the mountain states.

How self-sufficient do you want to be? In reality, the West wasn't really habitable, very easily, until the advent of the railroad to bring in foodstuffs to make up for droughts, etc.

If you want real self-sufficiency, you need land like Lancaster PA, parts of NJ, NY, VA, KY, SE TX and TN -- unfortunately, those aren't the most desirable for political reasons, and for disease -- I'm guessing it's due to damp, cold falls and springs, but that part of the country seems far more prone to disease.

Again, if the idea of occasional crop failures don't bother you, the MT would work -- if you buy a place w. the original grass in tact (never had sheep), there is no better place to finish cattle, and it will grow crops, but you'll need a reservoir.

Also, be willing to look at larger places -- those 100 ac. hobby size places can get prices pretty high, due to yuppies -- sometimes a commercial place of a few sections isn't all that more, and could actually pay for itself.

[Aglifter]

The other part about MT is cold. All of the Rockies can get cold, but MT can get VT cold -- UT, NM, and CO don't, to my knowledge.

Cold in MT is like the Sun in TX -- it can kill you quicker than you think if you don't think about it, but the cold can kill you much, much faster. (AKA, how well does your family handle being shut in, w. no school to go to, and not much to do other than go out in a blizzard at ~ -30 and keep your cattle out of the drifts, and watered.)

It's a great life, but it can be difficult for some people to adapt to.

[Darrell]

That's the nice thing about Colorado--we have mountains, plains, and high desert. It's actually fairly temperate here, and low humidity. Great gun laws too. Like everywhere else in the West, though, we're suffering immigration from California, and we did turn blue a couple of years ago... Real estate down around Trinidad has some of the best deals going right now, and it's some darn pretty country. There's a ranch east of Trinidad, near Branson, hard up against the north side of the Raton mesa complex, that's pretty as can be. Sunflowers as far as the eye can see. Or, right across the border...

If I had it to do over again, I'd look at northern New Mexico. It reminds me of what Colorado must've been like 50-60 years ago. New Mexico is Democrat too, and always has been, I think, but their gun laws are good, and they haven't gone over the edge politically. Stay away from Santa Fe and Taos and you're good to go.

[308Mike]

I'll take that spread they had near the beginning of the movie Shooter - in the Wind River Range with a few thousands acres of hills and mountains around me with lots of water, game, rich soil for grading a flat spot for vegetables and a green house for fruits/citrus trees.

[Fivetoes]

I will guess that Chris knows who[Jack Belkis, interesting story of his adventures living off grid in Idaho.

[Rumpshot]

Chris/Mel,

I grew up on a "farm" in northeast MT. We had 3000 acres of dryland farm with large pastures (I still hold with my siblings mineral rights and a 40 acre parcel). We grew a kitchen garden of about 1-2 acre in size and raised registered Hereford cattle. We had good drinking water and water available for the garden and livestock. Other neighbors were not so lucky about the drinking water. There were 7 of us counting Mom & Dad and all the kids.

The wind blows about 27 hours a day 454 days a year in MT and Wyoming. UNLESS you are depending on it for something, then it will stop completely.

The winter of 1964 or 1965 we had a week of -45 degrees. That is pretty brisk.

The plains portion of the state does not normally get that much snow, or for that matter rain. When it happens, it happens all at once. Our annual precipitation was on the order of 11 inches a year. Most of AZ gets more than that.

Land prices in MT are beyond ridiculous because much of that, that is worth looking at is Kalifornicated.

Politically MT is for the most part pretty good. Gunlaws are mostly what most states should be like.

Anything you would find priced right would be REMOTE.

Like most locations, your integration into the community would depend on who you associated with on arrival. Many communities are very slow to accept newcomers. They will be happy to take your money though.

[Netpackrat]

Email AlaskaTRX for info on Montana, since he probably isn't watching the forum right now. He did his undergrad work at MSU in Bozeman, and frequently travels to Pinedale MT, and also Casper WY for work.

[Darrell]

There's a place here in Colorado I've sometimes thought might be nice to get away from it all, and cheap to boot--it's a little burg called Karval, or going north from there to a small town named Hugo. Karval's on the plains, an hour or so east of Colo Springs, it's farm and ranching country. Far enough from town to avoid the suburbanites, and to keep the land relatively inexpensive. Karval's rather proud of their school, too, and offer online education across the state. Some places on the plains have a beauty all their own. Going on NW from Hugo is the town of Limon, which is on the interstate and an hour from both Denver and the Springs. There's some pretty country around Limon too, esp to the SW toward the Springs. Alta Vista is an interesting place too, it's about halfway between Limon and the Springs. Tornadoes and rattlesnakes are the downsides out east.