Wake-up call

[Mud_Dog]

So...

You're sitting alone in your apartment on a Saturday night. Across the way on the next apartment building's lot there is a man argueing with a woman. Suddenly there are slaps and fists flying, what is your first instinct?

Mine was to call 911. I tell the dispatcher about a domestic disturbance, as the man is saying, "I'll kill you!" several times as I really want to get to my shotgun. I get hung up on, thankfully after all the info is given. The cops show up a few minutes before the disturbance is over. Before they get here I load my shotgun, which the first load takes forever(has anyone had that?) and it get caught between the carrier and mag tube on my Mossberg 500 Persuader. I got it out within a couple seconds, but still too long IMHO.

Thankfully the fight ended without any serious effects, but what would you have done? I'm starting to think I should keep my shotgun in amber condition in my safe, as all firearms must be in a safe or have a lock on them in this state(spit). Keeping them with ammunition in them is illegal of course, as is leaving them out without a lock on them.

It was a wake-up call for me, as this isn't a bad neighborhood; and even though I bar my door every night and keep my .38 Spl by my bed, maybe I should go with my gut and keep the shotgun out with an empty chamber?

Keep in mind this is a fairly populated neighborhood and I am on a second floor. I can get some safe shooting lines(I actually think about them when I look around from my balcony, I guess that's a good side affect of once being a soldier.

Of course, if shots started firing I would have gotten a bead, and who knows how it could have ended up you know?

[Rich]

If you happen to engage the male party involved in the domestic dispute in conversation, you might mention that there was a disturbance loud enough to cause you to load your shotgun and debate getting involved.

Of course, you don't let on that you know that he was involved, and also be aware he will also likely figure out that you were the one who called the cops.

He might get a clue that there is a world out there beyond his own little domestic hell. Or not.

I'm sure some other denizens of this board will have comments. Take them for what they're worth. They're free.

[Fivetoes]

Calling it in was plenty. I advise anybody to avoid domestic arguments, even if they start getting physical. The women are nuts to stay in a relationship where they know there is abuse and the men are plain assholes, they have a desire to "get even" with whoever called it in. The only exception and it is iffy with me is if a life definately is at stake. Comply with the law concernig your weapon, you won't have to answer for it later.

[randy]

Have had it happen twice* (joys of living across the street from a rental property "qualified for low income").

Both times called the cops and stayed on my property/inside the house and monitored the situation (i.e. "good witness"), with my CCW piece at my side. Good response times by the local PD, one time the guy went to jail, other time long discussion with both parties and cops left (2 different tenants).

+1 on not getting involved in domestic situations. My getting the sidearm i one case (I already had it on in the other)vis mostly in case it spills over onto my property.

Fortunately we don't have the storage laws some places do. The CCW piece is always handy, and I can get to it faster than getting the Mossberg (full mag, empty chamber, safety on) from upstairs.



* First time, January, night, windows and doors all closed and I'm watching "Band of Brothers" on TV, when I clearly hear a female voice outside yelling "Stay away from me! Keep your hands off me!". Turned off lights and looked outside, could not see anything, called 911, gave them the info. Cruisers show up withing 3 minutes, I went out and informed officers which direction I think the noise came from, and went back inside. I think they had an idea already as they went to the house and started talking with a male for several minutes. I had just sat back down when I heard a ruckus and looked back out as 3 officers are cuffing him and moving him to the back of the cruiser. Last I ever saw of him.

Second time, summer time, I'm outside talking with next door neighbors when I see a woman (new tenant) coming out front door and a male arm reach out, grab her, and drag her back inside and slam the door. Called 911 and got family inside. Cruisers there quickly, long discussion and they left.

No issues, so far, with current tenant (other than loaning her my lawn mower when hers died in the middle of the front yard).

[Rich]

That's kinda what I was getting at. Often our responses in situations like this can vary quite a bit. Usually I practice a live and let live philosophy, but I am enough of an idealist to want to try to fix (or meddle, take your pick) a bad situation. I usually curb such impulses, but they are still there. I expect most os us have pretty much the same impulses in varying degrees.

I've had abusive neighbors and even some co-workers, and eventually either they or I moved on.

Like many other situations in life, one size definitely doesn't fit all.

[Dedicated_Dad]

I generally agree with Chris, but have my own "slant" born of experience...

Second, THINK: An unloaded Mossy 500 is less useful than a ball-bat for personal defense. Any law that deigns to try to disarm me in my own home is - in my opinion - void and thus not worthy of consideration by Free Men. SCREW them and their stupid law, and that's about as mild as I can put it.

Third, a couple of experiences from my own life:
Dateline ~1986 - I'm at a "state fair" when I come upon a young couple with a baby stroller, arguing. She's in his face, he pushes her, I edge closer. They escalate, I edge closer. He grabs a left-hand full of her hair -on top of her head - and draws back his right fist to punch her. I grab his fist - hard - and say "let her go". "Mind your own business" he says, which is instantly followed by "YEAH! Mind your own business @$$hole" from her, whereupon she -- SHE -- kicks me in my crotch hard enough to lift my feet off the ground. I puke up an afternoon's worth of corn-dogs, and they continue their mating ritual.

Sorry, but some of these women LIKE to be abused. It's part of their psyche.

Dateline ~1990 - I'm working in a pretty trashy bar at closing time when a woman comes running in yelling "HELP!! They're going to kill each other!!" I run outside to find a man with a woman in a headlock. She's behind him, he's got her head under his left arm, and each of her wrists in his same-side hand. She's flopping like a fish, trying to get loose, and he's holding on. I run up to him and yell "let her go!!" He says "you don't understand..." I don't NEED to understand - he failed to take his hands off the woman, so I beat his ever-loving @$$ all over that parking lot. I later took her to ER, took her home, changed her locks, took her to get a restraining order... Did all the things a good man would do for an abused woman. She "repaid" me with the only currency she knew, and my daughter was born 10 months and 2 days later. What's ironic about all of this is that it was only a couple of months after this night that I had her in that very same headlock myself - it was the only way to stop her beating the hell out of me.

He was right - I most certainly DID NOT understand. Sometimes -- often, according to Erin Pizzey who founded the very first "battered women's shelter" in the world - the apparent "victim" is in fact the violent aggressor.

Dateline: ~1990~1996: I receive a total of 66 stitches, 2 knocked-out teeth, a fractured orbital (eye) socket, and various other miscellaneous injuries as a result of "sneak attacks" perpetrated by this "poor defenseless woman." In those ~5.5 years I call the police ~11 times, and every single time they force **ME** to leave the home, and leave the violent one there with my kids. On one memorable occasion, she's standing on the porch - behind the cop's back - grinning like a mad-woman while making "cutting" motions across my daughter's throat - literally threatening to kill my child - and (naturally) my attempts to tell the cops this are met with threats of violence to me by them.

Eventually I had enough, and then learned that restraining orders are issued only to women, against men - even if the man asking for one is standing there with one eye swelled completely shut and the other blood-red from the force of the impact. The judge laughed in my face and told me "you cain't be much of a man if you can't defend yourself against a little girl..." The fact is that had I raised my hand to block her punch, and thereby caused her to break a nail, *I* would be the one in an orange jump-suit and belly chains.

I've since learned that every single study which ever looked at the full-spectrum of domestic violence has found that women are at least as likely - generally significantly MORE likely - to initiate violence in their relationships. THINK: How many times have you hit a woman? Now - how many times has a woman hit YOU? I thought so...

I'm not saying there aren't abusive men, or abused women, but rather that the "male-perp/female victim" paradigm is a bold-faced LIE. The most violent relationships in the world are LESBIAN relationships. The reality of domestic violence is almost universally mutual.

I know most of us will not believe it, even when guided by our own experience - but that's because we have been lied to so well, for so long. Think: We know the truth about "gun violence" - do you really believe you've been told the truth about this?

I've told my now-wife point blank: I will NEVER hit you, but I *WILL* hit you **BACK**. Personally, I will no longer be a punching-bag for anyone. PERIOD. You want to be treated like a Lady? Don't step to me like a man. I've also taught my daughters: You don't want boys to hit you? Then don't hit boys.

Just imagine how much violence could be prevented if both sexes were taught that it is wrong to hit the other. What DO we teach our girls? If he gets fresh, SLAP him. Seeing a guy get hit in the nuts is "comedy." I'm sure we can all agree: There ain't a damn thing funny about catching one in the 'nads. I've asked women "how would YOU like it if a guy kicked YOU in the crotch? Now imagine your ovaries were hanging there, outside your body??!!

It ain't funny. It ain't all us. Yes, there are violent men and victimized women, but there are also a roughly equal number of cases that go the other way, and an even larger number where both is true.

All I ask is that we consider this before we beat or shoor some guy for defending himself. If I could ever find that boy, I'd surely apologize for what I did to him...

DD

ETA: Lest anyone think I'm some mealy little panty-waist, TRUST ME. I'm not. I won't claim to have won every fight I ever had -- and I had a lot in my young and stupid days -- but I WILL say that only one man ever wanted to fight me again -- even if he WON, I did enough damage that he didn't want to try it again... It's not that I could not defend myself, it's that I didn't dare, and that every one of her attacks came out of the blue when not expected. I've since learned this is a frequent pattern... She's since found a man who will "put her in her place" and seems -- FINALLY -- to be happy. Her Father told me ~19 years ago "If you'd just smack her up-side her head about twice a week, she'd make you a damn fine wife." He was right, but I was not willing to sell my soul to get along with someone who needed to be abused to be happy.

[Fivetoes]

Just look up Dedicated Dad's story about the perils of interfering into lover's disputes.

FLASH, don't bother, it is right above.

[Aglifter]

Only got involved twice -- once, I heard screaming, then a heavy thud, then silence, and running feet -- don't know what happened, the young woman seemed fine, and the guy managed to run to his car.

The other time, a neighbor screamed "Dear God someone help me!" I did come running w. a baseball bat -- and got there in time to prevent the roommate of the screaming woman from pushing the stoned man down 3 flights of concrete steps.

[Aaron]

The only time I ever hit a woman outside of a sparring ring was the last time I intervened in a domestic incident. At a bar, playing pool without enough beer in me to have an effect (halfway through the first), I noticed a couple sitting at the bar yelling back and forth. Buddy and I stop playing and kinda mossey a little closer just in case. He reaches back clocks her on the back of her head, close knuckled (idiot broke two of his fingers too). Being young and dumb, I grab the offending limb, twist, pull, and lever him facedown, arm up and back.

Yay me! Except that at this time, she, rather expertly, breaks her bottle on the bar and attempts to give me a jagged glass facial. I knock the glass aside with my left hand (still have that scar) and planted a palm between upper lip and nose as hard as I could. She falls back onto the bar, cops show up, and I almost got arrested for for breaking the asshole's fingers. The only thing that kept me out of cuffs was the bartender and a few patrons telling the same story I did.

Now days I tend to be a bit more circumspect. Unless I think a life is in danger or I know for absolute fact what's going down, I won't get more involved than calling the cops.

[Darrell]

I have never in my life hit a woman. Well, if big sisters don't count.