The Firearm Blog: 20 round drum magazine for Saiga-12

[SeekHer]

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MD-20: 20 round drum magazine for Saiga-12 shotgun

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008 ... 2-shotgun/

MD Arms have just started shipping their new 20 round drum magazines for the Siaga 12 shotgun. They cost $215 (+ $3 handling fee).

It look like they have only made enough to satisfy pre-orders and are now taking pre-orders for the second batch.

pictures on site

Tromix Custom with Md-20 mag

… now obsolete This photo has been floating around
the internet for a while.


UPDATE: DistalRadius @ the Saiga-12 forum posted these photos. Click to expand.

[Netpackrat]

If you are willing to spend a bit more, Alliance Armament makes the Wraithmaker drums, which are made of metal, rather than plastic.

[D5CAV]

The only drums I've found that work well are the 'doppel' mags for the MG13 and their related kin, the 'Beta' mags for M16s, et.al. The Eastern European drums for the AK and the old Suomi mags are OK. The rest (including the highly priced and highly prized Thompson drums) are curiousities, but nothing I'd bet my life on.

[Netpackrat]

The only drums I've found that work well are the 'doppel' mags for the MG13 and their related kin, the 'Beta' mags for M16s, et.al. The Eastern European drums for the AK and the old Suomi mags are OK. The rest (including the highly priced and highly prized Thompson drums) are curiousities, but nothing I'd bet my life on.

Which of these drums for the Saiga 12 have you tested?

[HTRN]

If you are willing to spend a bit more, Alliance Armament makes the Wraithmaker drums, which are made of metal, rather than plastic.

And their 30 rounds, to boot.

Hmm, let's see
MD Arms 20 rd - $260
Alliance Armament 30 rd - $425

Chaos is supposedly developing a 10 round minidrum, release date was mentioned for the Julyish.

Alot of the posters on the Saiga forums are concerned that the availability of drum mags may make the BATFE decide it's just like a streetsweeper, and classify it as a Destructive Device.


HTRN

[D5CAV]

Which of these drums for the Saiga 12 have you tested?

None. And at $200+, I won't be.

Years ago, I had the opportunity to try some semi-auto monstrosity of a 12-ga that had a drum as an optional feeding device. It worked OK with the stick mags. It didn't work very well with the drum. I think BATF classified that gun as a DD for some strange reason.

I have a distrust for most magazines that haven't gone through a military qualification process, and I distrust some mags that have gone through the process.

My experience with drums makes me dislike the genre in general. In addition to reliability, I find drums to be cumbersome. The Beta mags are the best of the lot, and they still make the weapon very clumsy. I haven't tried a drop test ($250 mag!!), but they were type accepted by the US Army, so I figure someone tried dropping a few loaded mags that were inserted in weapons. I don't know if anyone has tried that with either of the Saiga drums in the thread.

I picked up an aftermarket 10 rd mag for my Saiga 12 just for grins. Even that is cumbersome to the point that it is a toy for all intents and purposes. I haven't had a chance to test it yet. The Saiga is finicky even with the factory 5 rd mags. For example, 2-3/4" shells won't feed from the 3" mags. At $200+, I won't be picking up a drum just to try it out.

[D5CAV]

Alot of the posters on the Saiga forums are concerned that the availability of drum mags may make the BATFE decide it's just like a streetsweeper, and classify it as a Destructive Device.


HTRN

I remember the Streetsweeper. The one I tried made the Streetsweeper look elegant. It had an M16-style lower and it weighed over 10 lbs (maybe 15 lbs with the loaded drum). Now that you mention it, both the Streetsweeper and that monster gun were classified as DDs by ATF. That was about the time of the 'Bush I' AWB, so much craziness and stupidity was afoot.

[HTRN]

Keep in mind, that "street sweeper" is more a description of type, rather than a name - Both Cobray and Amsel made them, in variety of configurations, including .410 bore.

Other DD classified shotguns include the Franchi SPAS 12 and the countless variants of the Atchisson Assault Shotgun(which is probably the one you're thinking of) Then there's the Pancor Jackhammer, which was full auto, but never really made into production..


HTRN

[Netpackrat]

My experience with drums makes me dislike the genre in general. In addition to reliability, I find drums to be cumbersome. The Beta mags are the best of the lot, and they still make the weapon very clumsy. I haven't tried a drop test ($250 mag!!), but they were type accepted by the US Army, so I figure someone tried dropping a few loaded mags that were inserted in weapons. I don't know if anyone has tried that with either of the Saiga drums in the thread.

I picked up an aftermarket 10 rd mag for my Saiga 12 just for grins. Even that is cumbersome to the point that it is a toy for all intents and purposes. I haven't had a chance to test it yet. The Saiga is finicky even with the factory 5 rd mags. For example, 2-3/4" shells won't feed from the 3" mags. At $200+, I won't be picking up a drum just to try it out.

Alliance Armament offers a "reliability service" that they perform on your shotgun; they say without it only 80% (IIRC) of Saigas will function well with their drums, due to factory variations in the shotgun. Seems like they have done enough testing to have sorted out any potential problems, if they are warning of possible unreliability and providing a fix, that rather than just shipping drums. They also seem to be pretty heavily built, which I can't say judging from the pictures of the other manufacturer's plastic drums.

[D5CAV]

Keep in mind, that "street sweeper" is more a description of type, rather than a name - Both Cobray and Amsel made them, in variety of configurations, including .410 bore.

Other DD classified shotguns include the Franchi SPAS 12 and the countless variants of the Atchisson Assault Shotgun(which is probably the one you're thinking of) Then there's the Pancor Jackhammer, which was full auto, but never really made into production..


HTRN

Yes! It was the USAS-12. The one I shot was a US version before Daewoo started making them. What a boat-anchor!

The SPAS 12 is a DD? That's the same as a Benelli M3 (semi-auto/ pump with tube feed). I think the SPAS 15 (which looks a bit like the USAS 12, but lighter) may have been classified as a DD (I haven't seen one of those since the USAS 12), but I still see SPAS 12s floating around occasionally at ELGSs.

Do you recall what the rationale was for qualifying these as DDs? They're all semi-auto 12-ga shotguns. My Benelli SBE is deadlier than any of them (semi-auto 3-1/2" magnum baby!).