Larry Vickers is an ass...but we knew that.

[Netpackrat]

That's pretty douchey, but he's far from the douchiest "operator" in the training racket.

Well he hasn't shot any of his fellow instructors, challenged anyone to duels, admitted that he's a police state fascist, or claim to be a Four Weapons Combat Scientologist, but he is still pretty bad, and managed to make M4carbine.net into his own person fiefdom of asskissing.

Not traveling in any of those circles, I had no clue he is an ass until this thread. I bought one of his rifle slings recently, and I like it so far. Ironically enough, what was the last straw for me where Suarez was concerned, was an attack he made on Vickers about his being too fat to be a tactical instructor and basically a disgrace to the industry. I didn't know Vickers from Adam at that point, but I did enough research to learn what he spent his military career doing, and knowing that most of those guys have messed up joints and can't work out like they used to, I consider the weight a service related injury, and I said so. Now I am banned from Warrior Talk.

[Denis]

Now I am banned from Warrior Talk.

We know the caliber of a man by the enemies he keeps - Jeep forums, Warriortalk, anything else? Incidentally, it's been a while since you were banned from here

[Netpackrat]

I'm not banned from any Jeep forums. Just one of the MG groups, and a survivalist group of fruits and nuts.

Edit to add; if you look at my ID over at WT, it doesn't show banned, and in fact it still shows me as being "a shining beacon of light" due to other members giving out "reputation points" which is kind of stupid, but oh well. Over there they don't usually "ban" a user, they reset his password so he can't log in. And even when they actually ban a user, they have the forum options set to not display them as being banned. The reason for this, is most forums only have a few people banned... WT has literally thousands of people banned, and they don't really want that known. I have that directly from one of Gabe's former site admins/instructors.

And also, I wasn't banned for anything I posted to WT. I posted my comments to another website entirely. They actually monitor other forums and will ban a user for saying bad things about him/them elsewhere.

[Aesop]

Well in that case, let's not stand on ceremony.
That's not Warrior talk, it sounds more like Pussy Talk, run by a bunch of crybabies.
"Waaah, the internets iz mean to us! Waaaaaaaah!"
Fuck them, and the Waahmbulance they rode in on.
And Larry Snickers too.
I'm Aesop, and I approved this message.






That should save me a heap of time.

IMHO, a lot of the tin-horn two-bit hooey from these BS artists could be avoided by simply asking them "Mister, how many actual stand up face-to-face gunfights you been in?"
In about 95% of actual cases, in the line Louis L'Amour put in more than a couple of protagonists' heads, "I ain't seen any of your graveyards."
It's the real-life version of finding out Hardy Kreuger's character in the original Flight Of The Phoenix only designed model airplanes. There may yet be some actual truth involved in the product, but it's mainly theoretical, and largely happenstance.
The exchange would introduce a welcome amount of humility to this modern-day collection of Johnny Tylers.

[Kommander]

IMHO, a lot of the tin-horn two-bit hooey from these BS artists could be avoided by simply asking them "Mister, how many actual stand up face-to-face gunfights you been in?"

Thing is some of these guys, like Vickers and Yeager, actually have legitimate combat experience. However simply having someone try to kill you does not mean you actually know what your doing, nor does it mean that you are capable of training others.

[Netpackrat]

IMHO, a lot of the tin-horn two-bit hooey from these BS artists could be avoided by simply asking them "Mister, how many actual stand up face-to-face gunfights you been in?"

Thing is some of these guys, like Vickers and Yeager, actually have legitimate combat experience. However simply having someone try to kill you does not mean you actually know what your doing, nor does it mean that you are capable of training others.

Suarez was apparently in some gunfights during his law enforcement career. Then narrowly avoided being felonized over apparent worker's comp fraud because he was instructing privately while he was supposed to be on the injured list. Given the strenuous nature of standing behind a firing line and telling other people how to shoot, my take was that due to his overall douchiness, he had made a lot of enemies in his former department over the years, who seized the opportunity to finally fuck him back. I did try to take classes from several of his instructors but the classes they tried to put together up here always ended up being cancelled, postponed, or what have you and his attack on a competitor who is slightly overweight due to injuries sustained in the service of his country was finally the last straw. I liked a lot of what I saw about his pistol curriculum and if my goal is to learn to fight better with my pistol, then I certainly don't expect the guy teaching me to be a saint; I'm more interested in what he can teach me that might save my life at some point. But there comes a point when enough is enough and there are other fish in the sea. Including a bunch of his ex instructors who also finally got tired of his bullshit.

As for Yeager, there is some video out there purportedly of his gunfight as a contractor in the middle east, and it doesn't seem to paint too good of a picture of him.

[Aesop]

Sure, but that's why I specified "gunfight experience".
Virtually no combat per se, and precious little done beyond pistol range, really has any bearing on things except as a maneuver exercise discussion.

[HTRN]

What is would like to know, is how the does "expertise" behind the trigger, translate to being an expert on gunsmithing?

Frankly, I'm leery of any smith who claims to be an expert shot - spending time on the firing line, instead of at his workbench.

[Kommander]

Sure, but that's why I specified "gunfight experience".
Virtually no combat per se, and precious little done beyond pistol range, really has any bearing on things except as a maneuver exercise discussion.

Vickers would counter that he received plenty of training and experience with close combat during his time in SOF. Yeager would indirectly threaten you and then exfiltrate to a ditch behind his car. Your point is well taken and is something more people should think about when they shop for firearms training. Light infantry tactics, even at the individual level, are different from training to defend your home or person, especially in regards to the usefulness of claymores.

What is would like to know, is how the does "expertise" behind the trigger, translate to being an expert on gunsmithing?

Frankly, I'm leery of any smith who claims to be an expert shot - spending time on the firing line, instead of at his workbench.

Is he actually making guns himself or is he specing them out for others to make?

[Aesop]

Vickers would counter that he received plenty of training and experience with close combat during his time in SOF. Yeager would indirectly threaten you and then exfiltrate to a ditch behind his car. Your point is well taken and is something more people should think about when they shop for firearms training. Light infantry tactics, even at the individual level, are different from training to defend your home or person, especially in regards to the usefulness of claymores.

At which point I'd counter to Vickers that unless any of his targets were firing back at him, he is the proud possessor of the mail-order ninja training certificate, as opposed to the genuine article. By contrast, Miyamoto Musashi was 60-0 in sword duels (to the death), thus giving his Book Of Five Rings on strategy, swordsmanship, etc., a wee bit more metaphorical weight, and setting a standard that should apply today, for exactly the same reasons.
And which point I'd be dead, because Yeager would be holding his AR over his head from the ditch without looking and reconing by fire, and I'd probably catch a stray round in the back, which would serve me right for being in the same zip code as a guy like that if he had access to operable weapons and ammunition.

But to be fair, Yeager did post the Hot Crazy Matrix to his website, a service to humanity equal to Rob Reiner's contribution of Princess Bride to filmdom, and which, in both cases, provides a large amount of cinematic immunity for numerous other crimes against humanity.

I still wouldn't pay any attention to his weaponry pronouncements though.