Former Ranger And Professor Gives Take On Female Rangers

[Jericho941]

None of them would be able to piss in a mop bucket by the time they were repatriated. If they survived. If they actually go into combat, the same fate will befall these Rangerettes too.

Pissing wouldn't be their only evacuation problem.

Would have been worse if they were captured by the Japanese.

It's hardly as if the men were immune to that treatment.

[Kommander]

I don't recall the Japanese having any pleasure boys. I do wonder what's going to happen the first time a female US soldier ends up playing Princess Lea to Al-Bagdadis Jabba The Hut.

[PawPaw]

Not Ranger qualified, but as I understand it there's still the Strong Ranger / Smart Ranger dichotomy. Once you factor having to pack a M240 or M2 around, or ammo for same, repeatedly, over periods of time where you aren't fed so well, aren't working out, and are therefore constantly detraining from your maximums... you get the point. There are physiological differences, and those were not such that ALL women were screened out (note both were academy grads, and likely in the Smart Ranger category). But take the average female and train her for four months, and she might be approaching where I STARTED, strength-wise, and I'm not special. Will there still be anomalies that can meet whatever unisex standards they finally come up with for FA, IN, etc? Likely. But the failure rates will be as described above: akin to Q-course / BUDs washout rates.

But WTF do I know, I'm just some dude who works in an office without windows inside the puzzle palace, and figures up attrition for the entire Army.

I don't know how it is now, but when I was a young soldier, Ranger school was more suited toward stamina than raw strength. Lots of little wormy-looking bastards walking around with Ranger tabs. None of them really pumped, in the weight-lifter mode of strength, but they had a mindset of stamina, and they could walk you into the ground. 48-hour humps through absolutely devastating terrain were common.

But, in the late Vietnam era, I don't recall any pumped up Rangers. Just lots of skinny guys made of barbed wire and vinegar.

[randy]

I don't know how it is now, but when I was a young soldier, Ranger school was more suited toward stamina than raw strength. Lots of little wormy-looking bastards walking around with Ranger tabs. None of them really pumped, in the weight-lifter mode of strength, but they had a mindset of stamina, and they could walk you into the ground. 48-hour humps through absolutely devastating terrain were common.

But, in the late Vietnam era, I don't recall any pumped up Rangers. Just lots of skinny guys made of barbed wire and vinegar.

That was the word I got back in the early 80's. Buddy of mine was a reserve SF NCO working towards a commission in ROTC. Got to listen to him rant when he got turned down for a Ranger school slot through ROTC. They were sending a couple of hulking football players or some such who were "in great shape"! (and tickled the athletic Fan Boy streak of the detachment CO)

His comment then was that it was the small wiry guys that made it through, not recruiting posters for the NFL. Turns out he was right (hardly endeared him to the CO), but he never got a slot. (I'm sure he got plenty of similar fun running with the Eskimo Scouts a few years later after he was commissioned).

[HTRN]

Rangers are elite light infantry. note the key word there.

[g-man]

But, in the late Vietnam era, I don't recall any pumped up Rangers. Just lots of skinny guys made of barbed wire and vinegar.

Here's the thing with that: Even the skinny guys made of barbed wire and vinegar are likely stronger than 95% of the females in the Army, and 100% of those females in their weight class, despite being 'skinny guys...".

2015 US Collegiate Track and Field championship: Every finalist in the 100m dash ran faster than the current women's world record.
2015 US High School Track and Field Championship: The top 3 100m runners ran faster than the current women's world record.
2015 Collegiate powerlifting championship: Top lifter at 114lbs exceeded every female 114lb class world record except for the all bench-press (i.e. not in a meet) lifts, with his combined exceeding the women's world record at that weight class by 200lbs.
2015 High School powerlifting championship: Top lifter was less than 8%, 10% and 14% (Squat, bench, Deadlift) from the women's world record in the same class, at age 17

I realize I'm pontificating to the chapel singers, but when the current world records for the second lightest male weight class exceed every one except the unlimited (198+ class) female ones, yet we're told we're all equals... this does not match reality. I realize this is comparing the very top of the spectrum, but when you look at an average hack like me exceeding almost all of the female lift standards in less than 4 months... yet we're all equal... you get my drift. Had a discussion with a senior officer who mentioned that when she was working with junior MPs, the females who were too short to operate a M2 in a turret were also ALL too weak to effectively rack the handle and chamber a round, yet all of the males who were too short just needed something to stand on... that's a problem. Had a behavioral scientist type tell me when I mentioned "If the standard is put 100lbs over your head, almost none of the females would pass" that "Well that's a two-man lift...". Okay, but now move 155 rounds around... The lightest of which is illum at 85#.

Are there women who can do it? Yep, and I can likely count all the ones in the Army without taking my boots off.

And as far as operator types: A quote from one of my 1SGs, after working with one of the elite SOCOM units - "It's like being around the starting lineup for the Dallas Cowboys all the time".

[skb12172]

Not Ranger qualified, but as I understand it there's still the Strong Ranger / Smart Ranger dichotomy. Once you factor having to pack a M240 or M2 around, or ammo for same, repeatedly, over periods of time where you aren't fed so well, aren't working out, and are therefore constantly detraining from your maximums... you get the point. There are physiological differences, and those were not such that ALL women were screened out (note both were academy grads, and likely in the Smart Ranger category). But take the average female and train her for four months, and she might be approaching where I STARTED, strength-wise, and I'm not special. Will there still be anomalies that can meet whatever unisex standards they finally come up with for FA, IN, etc? Likely. But the failure rates will be as described above: akin to Q-course / BUDs washout rates.

But WTF do I know, I'm just some dude who works in an office without windows inside the puzzle palace, and figures up attrition for the entire Army.

I don't know how it is now, but when I was a young soldier, Ranger school was more suited toward stamina than raw strength. Lots of little wormy-looking bastards walking around with Ranger tabs. None of them really pumped, in the weight-lifter mode of strength, but they had a mindset of stamina, and they could walk you into the ground. 48-hour humps through absolutely devastating terrain were common.

But, in the late Vietnam era, I don't recall any pumped up Rangers. Just lots of skinny guys made of barbed wire and vinegar.

I just hired a Ranger who got out in June. Yup, he's a lean, "little wormy bastard." If I got him in close quarters or on the floor, he'd have a hell of a time taking me and I'm 43 with a bad back.

[skb12172]

But, in the late Vietnam era, I don't recall any pumped up Rangers. Just lots of skinny guys made of barbed wire and vinegar.

Here's the thing with that: Even the skinny guys made of barbed wire and vinegar are likely stronger than 95% of the females in the Army, and 100% of those females in their weight class, despite being 'skinny guys...".

2015 US Collegiate Track and Field championship: Every finalist in the 100m dash ran faster than the current women's world record.
2015 US High School Track and Field Championship: The top 3 100m runners ran faster than the current women's world record.
2015 Collegiate powerlifting championship: Top lifter at 114lbs exceeded every female 114lb class world record except for the all bench-press (i.e. not in a meet) lifts, with his combined exceeding the women's world record at that weight class by 200lbs.
2015 High School powerlifting championship: Top lifter was less than 8%, 10% and 14% (Squat, bench, Deadlift) from the women's world record in the same class, at age 17

I realize I'm pontificating to the chapel singers, but when the current world records for the second lightest male weight class exceed every one except the unlimited (198+ class) female ones, yet we're told we're all equals... this does not match reality. I realize this is comparing the very top of the spectrum, but when you look at an average hack like me exceeding almost all of the female lift standards in less than 4 months... yet we're all equal... you get my drift. Had a discussion with a senior officer who mentioned that when she was working with junior MPs, the females who were too short to operate a M2 in a turret were also ALL too weak to effectively rack the handle and chamber a round, yet all of the males who were too short just needed something to stand on... that's a problem. Had a behavioral scientist type tell me when I mentioned "If the standard is put 100lbs over your head, almost none of the females would pass" that "Well that's a two-man lift...". Okay, but now move 155 rounds around... The lightest of which is illum at 85#.

Are there women who can do it? Yep, and I can likely count all the ones in the Army without taking my boots off.

And as far as operator types: A quote from one of my 1SGs, after working with one of the elite SOCOM units - "It's like being around the starting lineup for the Dallas Cowboys all the time".

All true.

[JAG2955]

[

But, in the late Vietnam era, I don't recall any pumped up Rangers. Just lots of skinny guys made of barbed wire and vinegar.

Realize that now with proper nutrition, medicine, supplements, and physical training, a soldier/Marine who consistently works out in his free time is nearly as big/strong or bigger/stronger than a lot of pro football players from that time.

And as far as operator types: A quote from one of my 1SGs, after working with one of the elite SOCOM units - "It's like being around the starting lineup for the Dallas Cowboys all the time".

Ding! Ding! Ding! Maybe soon we'll get the weight standards changed. Right. Hope you make weight now that you're hitting the gym, buddy.

[First Shirt]

I just hired a Ranger who got out in June. Yup, he's a lean, "little wormy bastard." If I got him in close quarters or on the floor, he'd have a hell of a time taking me and I'm 43 with a bad back.

Just remember their rules: Eyeballs gouged out DO NOT have to be given back when the fight's over.

Or as someone once said "If it's got rules, it ain't a fight, it's a game. Games have rules. Fights have winners and losers."