Thutty Ought Six

[Netpackrat]

Bringing my 6 year old thread back from the dead, because I has a few questions... Anyway, I haven't done a damn thing with this rifle yet, although my overall plans for it have not changed. Like many others, due to the political climate, I have spent the last few years focused on evil black rifles and related stuff. But this old 721 has never been far from my mind.

One of the weak points of the old 721 was the extractor system. We've never had any trouble with the extractor in my dad's old custom 721 (7mm Wby Mag), but enough people did, that Remington upgraded the extractor somewhat when they came out with the 700. The extractor for the 721 has not been produced in decades, and is no longer available as a replacement part. Be a pisser to build a nice rifle, and later have it develop extractor problems due to wear, and not be able to repair it.

I was doing some searching looking for extractors (I just #$*^&#(*#$@ missed an NOS one on gunbroker), and I came upon the following:

http://shop.pacifictoolandgauge.com/ind ... ts_id=1115

I had no idea I could get a custom-made replacement bolt for the old 721. The price seems reasonable to me, and a number of options are available. Chief among them from my point of view, it looks to be available cut for several different extractors. You can get it to take a standard Remington extractor (no idea if this means original 721, or the later 700 type), a Sako extractor, an M-16 extractor, or a Mini M-16 extractor (whatever that is).

My question is, which would be best? I have no idea of the relative merits of the different options. I assume there are pros and cons involved, since they offer different options in the first place. I know the Remington extractor isn't exactly considered one of the better points of the action even in the later 700, but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

Secondly, does anybody here know any other reason why I would want to stay away from the PTG replacement bolts?

[Denis]

My question is, which would be best? I have no idea of the relative merits of the different options.

Call PTG and ask them?

Secondly, does anybody here know any other reason why I would want to stay away from the PTG replacement bolts?

You can't very well ask them that

[Netpackrat]

Well, I have fallen fairly far down the Remington extractor rabbit hole pursuing this issue. What I have found, is that the Sako extractor mod is fairly commonly made to Remington bolts, although there is a growing number of smiths who will no longer make the mod, due to instances of the extractor and bolt parting company in the event of case ruptures. The 721 and its progeny are among the strongest actions made due to the whole "3 rings of steel" concept, and the external extractor mods not only compromise the innermost ring, they also completely negate the factory gas handling design. So, Sako extractors for Sakos, and Remington extractors for Remingtons.

Consulted with my gunsmith friend and he echoed the above... Also brought up the excellent point that if PTG can make an entire bolt assembly, they could just as easily make a replacement 721 extractor, except that would cut into sales of the bolt assembly. He seemed to think that a replacement extractor could be made from a piece of sheet steel and then heat treated should it ever become necessary, and he also provided a link to a procedure for modding the bolt to take a 700 extractor, which is a catalog item from Brownell's.

Some more searching revealed a thread on the Numrich forum describing how a 7400/7600 extractor can be modified to work in the 721 bolt. The 7400 and 7600 extractors are one digit different in part number, look the same in the pictures, and can currently be had for $18.30 each.

So given those options, and because I like the shape of the stock 721 bolt handle better than I do any of the options with the PTG bolt, I don't think I am going to buy a new bolt at this point. Particularly considering that the shape of the handle is one of the things I like about the 721 over the 700. Since I never bothered firing the rifle after trading for it (due to the ringed barrel), I did buy a box of '06 ammo a couple weeks ago, that I will put through it next time I can get to the range, just to make sure it feeds and extracts as-is.

One last thing I found in my search for extractors... There is still a lot of hate out there for the Remingtons because they do not have the stupid claw thingy. Especially at the "Alaska" forum that I left years ago due to it being populated by douchenozzles. I guess they missed the fact that there are probably twice as many of them in use here compared to any other rifle.

[Vonz90]

Well, I have fallen fairly far down the Remington extractor rabbit hole pursuing this issue. What I have found, is that the Sako extractor mod is fairly commonly made to Remington bolts, although there is a growing number of smiths who will no longer make the mod, due to instances of the extractor and bolt parting company in the event of case ruptures. The 721 and its progeny are among the strongest actions made due to the whole "3 rings of steel" concept, and the external extractor mods not only compromise the innermost ring, they also completely negate the factory gas handling design. So, Sako extractors for Sakos, and Remington extractors for Remingtons.

Consulted with my gunsmith friend and he echoed the above... Also brought up the excellent point that if PTG can make an entire bolt assembly, they could just as easily make a replacement 721 extractor, except that would cut into sales of the bolt assembly. He seemed to think that a replacement extractor could be made from a piece of sheet steel and then heat treated should it ever become necessary, and he also provided a link to a procedure for modding the bolt to take a 700 extractor, which is a catalog item from Brownell's.

Some more searching revealed a thread on the Numrich forum describing how a 7400/7600 extractor can be modified to work in the 721 bolt. The 7400 and 7600 extractors are one digit different in part number, look the same in the pictures, and can currently be had for $18.30 each.

So given those options, and because I like the shape of the stock 721 bolt handle better than I do any of the options with the PTG bolt, I don't think I am going to buy a new bolt at this point. Particularly considering that the shape of the handle is one of the things I like about the 721 over the 700. Since I never bothered firing the rifle after trading for it (due to the ringed barrel), I did buy a box of '06 ammo a couple weeks ago, that I will put through it next time I can get to the range, just to make sure it feeds and extracts as-is.

One last thing I found in my search for extractors... There is still a lot of hate out there for the Remingtons because they do not have the stupid claw thingy. Especially at the "Alaska" forum that I left years ago due to it being populated by douchenozzles. I guess they missed the fact that there are probably twice as many of them in use here compared to any other rifle.

You make an excellent argument for using a Mauser action, not that I needed any convincing.

[Netpackrat]

Not so much... I make an excellent argument for shitcanning the whole thing, and starting with a Savage action, like I usually tell other people to do. Or what my gunsmith friend is trying to convince me to do, which is to just not put any money into a 60 year old rifle with dubious availability of replacement parts. I did hand cycle some ammo through it last night, and it feeds/extracts very smoothly. Maybe I should just have the barrel cut back past the bulged area and keep it as a beater/loaner/backup.

[Greg]

Not so much... I make an excellent argument for shitcanning the whole thing, and starting with a Savage action, like I usually tell other people to do. Or what my gunsmith friend is trying to convince me to do, which is to just not put any money into a 60 year old rifle with dubious availability of replacement parts. I did hand cycle some ammo through it last night, and it feeds/extracts very smoothly. Maybe I should just have the barrel cut back past the bulged area and keep it as a beater/loaner/backup.

Keep it as a source of spares for the similar rifle that you really care about?

[Netpackrat]

Keep it as a source of spares for the similar rifle that you really care about?

If only. The part that's really a potential issue, the extractor, is different due to the magnum bolt face of the other rifle. One good thing about this whole episode, is it caused me to search for 721 extractors again, and I actually found one on GB for the other rifle. So, once it arrives I will have a spare for that rifle. The magnum extractors seem to be more common, since there is another one on GB currently.

The other rifle also has already been refitted with a model 700 trigger and safety (never had any trouble with the original parts, but I had it done under the recall, and had a trigger job done at the same time). It has a custom stock, and some kind of aftermarket bottom metal of unknown make that is NLA. Possibly the firing pin mechanism could be used.

[Netpackrat]

Picture of the other rifle:



It currently isn't wearing a scope; that is the Redfield that is on my CZ now. I found a 3x9 Widefield in good shape that I am going to put on there, probably with new rings. When Dad was using that rifle, it had a 2x7 Redfield (non Widefield) that I still have, and may put on the .30-06 721 if I get the barrel cut back
.

[HTRN]

I have just noticed that the barrel is slightly bulged about 3/4" back from the muzzle. So it looks like if I want to use it as-is, I'll have to have it shortened and re-crowned. So much for the iron sights, since I am not having this barrel re-drilled and tapped for the front base.

Leave it the existing length, and back bore it.