Reason To Love Urban Dictionary

[Kommander]

Well I suppose there is a difference between offering people something at a reduced rate and forcing them to do it.

[randy]

The problem is mostly a result of bad culture. Granted, a [strike]subhuman[/strike] barbarian culture.

I'm not comfortable with using the term subhuman because after a while it's too easy to think of them as subhuman. I think "barbarian" or "uncivilized" is a better description, as it leaves room for individuals to rise above their culture (I've known several), whereas "subhumans" are always that and can never rise above that level.

Of course my definitions of civilized probably is somewhat different than text book, for example if your culture allows slavery, you're not civilized. True Monarchy (i.e. divine right of kings and all that rubbish), uncivilized. Communist, Theocracy, etc.... not civilized. Don't care how many fancy paintings, operas, or "sophisticated" books your culture produces, if you don't recognize individual rights and understand the the state works for and should be subservient to the citizens under the Rule of Law, you are a barbarian.

Maybe semantics, but semantics can be important in shaping the political and intellectual battle space.

[MarkD]

In the interests of keeping costs down, the surgical interns could perform them, as they aren't terribly complicated.

Until the first welfare recipient dies of complications. "Oh Lord! They're using poor black women to PRACTICE on before they become "real" surgeons so they can make lots of money working on rich white women!"

[Weetabix]

I know that; the point is, appearances matter.

I hate that fact, though I acknowledge it.

The problem is mostly a result of bad culture. Granted, a [strike]subhuman[/strike] barbarian culture.

I'm not comfortable with using the term subhuman because after a while it's too easy to think of them as subhuman. I think "barbarian" or "uncivilized" is a better description, as it leaves room for individuals to rise above their culture (I've known several), whereas "subhumans" are always that and can never rise above that level.

Concur. Hadn't thought of it that way.

Of course my definitions of civilized probably is somewhat different than text book, for example if your culture allows slavery, you're not civilized. True Monarchy (i.e. divine right of kings and all that rubbish), uncivilized. Communist, Theocracy, etc.... not civilized. Don't care how many fancy paintings, operas, or "sophisticated" books your culture produces, if you don't recognize individual rights and understand the the state works for and should be subservient to the citizens under the Rule of Law, you are a barbarian.

By that definition, our current government is not civilized.

Maybe semantics, but semantics can be important in shaping the political and intellectual battle space.

I agree again. Words are the tools of thought. Thoughts form the mental representation of reality. Bad tools = bad mental representation of reality.

[Yogimus]

In the interests of keeping costs down, the surgical interns could perform them, as they aren't terribly complicated.

Until the first welfare recipient dies of complications. "Oh Lord! They're using poor black women to PRACTICE on before they become "real" surgeons so they can make lots of money working on rich white women!"

Your preconceptions rooted in racism are showing.

[randy]

Of course my definitions of civilized probably is somewhat different than text book, for example if your culture allows slavery, you're not civilized. True Monarchy (i.e. divine right of kings and all that rubbish), uncivilized. Communist, Theocracy, etc.... not civilized. Don't care how many fancy paintings, operas, or "sophisticated" books your culture produces, if you don't recognize individual rights and understand the the state works for and should be subservient to the citizens under the Rule of Law, you are a barbarian.

By that definition, our current government is not civilized

Sadly, I can't really argue with you on this point. I just have (however unrealistic) hopes that at some point we start on the path back to a government acting like they know they are employees of a Constitutional Republic.

[Termite]

In the interests of keeping costs down, the surgical interns could perform them, as they aren't terribly complicated.

Until the first welfare recipient dies of complications. "Oh Lord! They're using poor black women to PRACTICE on before they become "real" surgeons so they can make lots of money working on rich white women!"

Your preconceptions rooted in racism are showing.

Thank you, Yogi.

What part of 'I don't give a flying shit about race with regard to offering "free" tubal ligations' was un-clear?

Well, I suppose there is a difference between offering people something at a reduced rate and forcing them to do it.

Exactly.

Not required.......but refuse after bastard#2, and the welfare check gets reduced. And the co-pay on your Section 8 apartment doubles.

[Jericho941]

I do believe Yogi was replying to MarkD.

However, we're dancing around the 800-pound gorilla in the room. Prepare for unforeseen consequences. It doesn't matter if you don't care about the race, the demographics that would be hit by the policy would be, well, disproportionate. Y'know, like the poverty rates. Which would sweep all debate on these complex issues aside because you've basically declared a eugenics campaign targeting the impoverished, i.e. mostly not-white people.

Politically, attempting to implement such a policy would be akin to grabbing your adversary's strong hand, shoving a gun into it butt-first, and then yanking it down so the muzzle rests on your dick before screaming "DO IT!" With a legion of witnesses. You are now a Nazi. It doesn't matter that the policy will also impact some white people; obviously since they fell so low in society, they're not really Aryan and are thus acceptable collateral damage. That's before you get to the part where, through the cost-saving measure you came up with, you're essentially reducing them to the level of medical cadavers.

And to be honest, I wouldn't want to live in a society that condoned such things, even with the most high-minded ideals. Once you decide it's acceptable to sterilize some people because you feel entitled to*, you've laid the groundwork for any number of horrors in terms of both legal precedent, and creating a societal attitude that such things are both normal and acceptable. Road to hell, good intentions, etc.

*There is no double-meaning to this; the least-nasty idea behind this is "if you indirectly receive my money you will live your life on my direct terms" and all the baggage that comes with it.

[Termite]

I do believe Yogi was replying to MarkD.

I know that, and I was enjoying his response.

Everyone seems to be hung up on the idea that somehow it's racist/bigoted.

Exactly how? Because in the South, there are a lot of blacks that are on welfare?
I would hazard a guess that in the Southwest, more Hispanics are. And on reservations and in Alaska, more Native Americans and Inuits. In Appalachia, it is mostly "whites" in this catagory, but that doesn't seem to get the publicity/traction than other ethnic groups do.
That's not "racist", that's reality.

BTW, I am not saying force people into this at gunpoint. I'm saying use economic "carrots" to encourage it, along with a possible stick. I am on record as coupling it with education & job training incentives.

But I do understand that some people can never ever see the reality.

Oh, and something else:

That's before you get to the part where, through the cost-saving measure you came up with, you're essentially reducing them to the level of medical cadavers.

Making that statement tells me a lot about your knowledge of how the medical schools work, and medical internships.

[Cybrludite]

including the white trash from up the holler doesn't really help much. After all the T-4 Program, aka the training wheels of the Holocaust, was about getting rid of sub-standard Germans, not non-Germans.