Choosing sides

[Aesop]

No, as a rule they only think they model their training on the Marines'.
Generally based on a dearth of any direct personal experience with same, other than perhaps seeing Gomer Pyle, USMC or An Officer And A Gentleman.
Darryl @$$hole Gates, the sphincter who gave us both SWAT, and the LAPD we know and detest for their behavior during the 1992 riots, said for years he "modeled LAPD training on the Marines' ". This from a squid who barely squeaked into WWII before it was over.

Take those assertions with a grain of salt, because they're worthless.

The reality is that I'd trust more MCRD boot camp graduates than academy graduates with the same job, without any further training.

[HTRN]

Yeah, that's deliberate. Same thing in MA state police. It's explicitly and deliberately modeled on the Marine Corps in many different ways... and no coincidence they recruit heavily from the corps.

Which is part of the problem. They're supposed to be law enforcement, not training to land on a beachhead..

[D5CAV]

Which is part of the problem. They're supposed to be law enforcement, not training to land on a beachhead..

Now they are: http://www.activistpost.com/2014/02/loc ... orces.html

And its not in NYC or the PRK either.

[Aglifter]

OK guys, SF/MARSOC/etc regularly train LEOs - at least, SWAT teams. Now, the whys of that might be suspect - in fact are suspect or at least stupid, but it's nothing new.

[Aesop]

The police training with SF reads exactly like the local community college team training with the NFL.

It's generally a cross between rapant wannabeism, fantasy baseball camp, and the fact that places like Ft. Bragg have facilities that any number of small departments don't have access to for training (ranges, just plain space, urban "combat towns" and such).

The number of times police screw up military-style raids, and the number of times SF screws up police-style operations, should be some comfort there.

Running checkpoints gets to be a lot less fun if you don't have three MG squads pulling security, and even less so the first time folks take it as an opportunity to eliminate a checkpoint with sniper fire.

The minute the police start brandishing M240s and strafing neighborhoods, the cat's out of the bag, and they aren't the police anymore, just a far less competent version of the military, and with very little command experience from the top levels to the street supervisors in the employment of same.

Other than in tiny little incidents where they can briefly overwhelm the opposition, they are merely going to die a lot, and not-so-gloriously as they imagine.
The James-Younger gang got a taste of trying to cow a community when they hit a bunch of farmers and shopkeepers in Northfield MN.
The BATFE got the same comeuppance when they hit the compound at Waco and the inhabitants had barely an hour to prepare.
If local LE suddenly decides they're the .mil one bright sunny day, they will resemble far more than casually F-Troop, McHale's Navy, and Hogan's Heroes. And then they'll be a feast for the lower rungs on the food chain, while their armaments are passed around amongst their tentative opposition.

They have neither the strategy nor the stamina for what follows for years after. Even our military doesn't.
And neither will be doing much when their families suddenly live right in the middle of occupied territory, instead of sitting home safe 10,000 miles away.

Only madmen would aspire to turn the entire country into Bosnia and Beirut, and that's where it'd go, in a matter of weeks, from sea to shining sea, and worst in exactly the areas that TPTB think of as Blue State paradises. If they had any wild idea of the number of people biding their time until the shooting starts, it would give them a sobering pause, and they'd steer back towards the middle of the road again, in any number of ways.

[D5CAV]

The number of times police screw up military-style raids, and the number of times SF screws up police-style operations, should be some comfort there.

+1

I attended a number of schools in the US Army. Every one of them were to enhance my warfighting capability. That is, killing people, and destroying infrastructure and equipment that enhance the opponent's warfighting capability. We received almost no training on policing outside of prisoner management.

I'm sure the MP school teaches policing, but I think the only branch that is smaller than MP is JAG.

I'm sure there are soldiers who will make great LEOs, after proper training, as there are LEOs who could become warfighters, after proper training.

However, they are two very different skill sets and doctrines.

[Aglifter]

The police training with SF reads exactly like the local community college team training with the NFL.

Pretty much. The MARSOC instructor wasn't too impressed. Honestly, while I understand the need for HRT/SWAT teams, adapting the model the TX Rangers followed until at least the 50s, makes more sense.

(Have a "real" crime to investigate, call in the Rangers, who have a lab, educated professional investigators, more experience, etc. Have a serious problem, send in a real team of full-time trained pros, who could actually shoot, and would be in decent shape.)

[randy]

adapting the model the TX Rangers followed until at least the 50s, makes more sense.

1 Riot, 1 Ranger?

[Aglifter]

No, more like "local sheriff sees a riot/murder/bank robbery/etc and calls in rangers, as he's just some dude elected to office without a crime lab or that much experience.

Part of that stems from a large city in TX in the 50s was15,000

[D5CAV]

Now we know which side the CT State Police are on: http://www.wcbm.com/includes/news_items ... &id=362971