Another screwed up drug raid, another dead cop

[Kommander]

Using this kind of raid when there are children present (unless it's to rescue said children from an immediate threat) reeks of bad judgment. There is most definitely a place for these kinds of raids, but not like this.

[D5CAV]

Who in Hades are you to question, in such a disrespectful manner for the deceased and his family and his coworkers, the probable lawful actions of law enforcement officers who were probably performing their legal duties. You have no clue as to why the raid was conducted at 0400, no idea as to how the entry was performed except that the agent was shot. Sure you can question what you want, this is the US of A and you have the right, but why not in a more respectful tone for the family of the fallen agent? Is it you just hate LEOs?

I'll question his actions. Until we get some more 'change', this is still a country where I can question authority.

With all due respect, you need to re-read a couple of documents that are sitting in the National Archives in Washington, DC. They are the 'Declaration of Independence' and the 'Constitution of the United States of America'. If you read the list of grievances in the 'Declaration of Independence' you will find pre-revolutionary 'no-knock' raids as one of the reasons of the revolution. This is why the 'Constitution of the United States of America' has such severe limitations on what the government can do when trespassing on your home (limits that are ignored by the courts these days).

I do not believe there is any justification for no-knock raids at 4am.

If you are a LEO and believe the drug dealer will 'dispose' of the evidence while you are knocking on the door, then I would respectfully suggest you are wasting my taxpayer dollars chasing that particular drug dealer. Any amount of drugs that can be flushed down the toilet or shoved down the sink in the 10 minutes or so it takes you to politely gain access to the house is an unimportant amount of drugs.

If the guy has a meth lab in his garage, he's not going to dispose of it in 10 hours, much less 10 minutes. Knock on the door and act like the motto on the police cruiser: 'protect and serve'. LEOs are supposed to be our public servants, not our samurai masters.

Oh, and by the way, if you think these 'no-knock' raids are only going to be used on 'criminals' such as drug dealers, wake up and smell the 'change'. Sure, these LEOs are only [strike]'following orders'[/strike]'performing their legal duties'. What happens when 'performing their legal duties' include 'no-knock' raids on those addresses on the 4473s of 'criminals' who failed to turn in all those WASRs (or AR15s, or pick your favorite EBR)?

What are you going to do when that 'no-knock' raid at 4am is at your house?

[Whirlibird]

Now I remember why I skip this thread normally.

[Termite]

Now I remember why I skip this thread normally.

Amen.....

[BobTheWitch]

To those who are police officers trying to explain from the inside:

I respectfully disagree with you that officer safety is more important than the safety of possible innocents in the target home. Further, the fact that there cannot be certainty beforehand, makes the use of such tactics highly suspect. In my admittedly narrow mindset, the ONLY time such tactics should be used is in active shooter situations. To me that is the only time such paramilitary tactics are justifiable, let alone justified. The reason that they are justifiable under those circumstances is the clear risk to innocents that an active shooter poses.

While I may be accused of being callous and unfeeling for this statement, a police office does not have a right to be safe at the expense of a citizens rights, period. If you feel that I am wrong in this, we will probably never agree. Someone being a suspect, according to the documents we all live under, still requires the action of a court to abrogate their right to freedom from search. I feel that the Terry decision, while it is the law we live under, was erroneous. Even with Terry in hand, no-knock raids are still not justified under the majority of the cases when they are used, as the primary justification for such tactics, as presented when I have researched, is officer safety.

Please feel free to tear me a new one, but let's do it with references and facts.

[Netpackrat]

I have participated in hundreds of such operations during the dark hours and during daylight hours.

I guess that doesn't surprise me. Perhaps the apology I offered in the previous forum was a bit premature.