More spelling & grammar errors these days?

[Windy Wilson]

"This is the kind of tedious nonsense up with which I will not put!" -- attributed to Winston S. Churchill.

[evan price]

Actual published headlines:

Something Went Wrong in Jet Crash, Expert Says

Police Begins Campaign to Run Down Jaywalkers

Safety Experts Say School Bus Passengers Should be Belted

Drunk Gets Nine Months in Violin Case

Survivor of Siamese Twins Joins Parents

Farmer Bill Dies in House

Iraqi Head Seeks Arms

Is There a Ring of Debris Around Uranus?

Stud Tires Out

Prostitutes Appeal to Pope

Panda Mating Falls; Veternarian Takes Over

Soviet Virgin Lands Short of Goal Again

British Left Waffles on Falkland Islands

Lung Cancer in Women Mushrooms

Eye Drops off Shelf

Teacher Strikes Idle Kids

Reagan Wins on Budget, But More Lies Ahead

Squad Helps Dog Bite Victim

Shot Off Woman''s Leg Helps Nicklaus to 66

Enraged Cow Injures Farmer with Ax

Plane Too Close to Ground, Crash Probe Told

Miners Refuse to Work After Death

Juvenile Court to try Shooting Defendant

Stolen Painting Found by Tree

Two Soviet Ships Collide, One Dies

Two Sisters Reunited After 18 Years in Checkout Counter

Killer Sentenced to Die for Second Time in 10 years.

Never Withold Herpes Infection from Loved One

Drunken Driver Paid $1,000 in ''84

War Dims Hope for Peace

If Strike isn''t Settled Quickly, It May Last a While

Cold Wave Linked to Temperatures

Enfields Couple Slain; Police Suspect Homicide

Red Tape Holds Up New Bridge

Dear Kill 17,000

Typhoon Rips Through Cemetery; Hundreds Dead

Man Struck by Lightning Faces Battery Charge

New Study of Obesity Looks for Larger Tests Group

Astronaut Takes Blame for Gas in Spacecraft

Kids Make Nutritious Snacks

Chef Throws His Heart Into Helping Feed Needy

Arson Suspect Held in Massachussets Fire

British Union Finds Dwarfs in Short Supply

Ban On Soliciting Dead in Trotwood

Lansing Residents Can Drop Off Trees

Local High School Dropouts Cut in Half

New Vaccine May Contain Rabies

Man Minus Ear Waives Hearing

Deaf College Opens Doors to Hearing

Air Head Fired

Steals Clock, Faces Time

Prosecutor Releases Probe into Undersheriff

Old School Pillars Are Replaced by Alumni

Bank Drive-In Window Blocked by Board

Hospitals are Sued by Seven Foot Doctors

Some Pieces of Rock Hudson Sold at Auction

Sex Education Delayed, Teachers Request Training

Include Your Children When Baking Cookies

[MarkD]

Then there was the news report in a NYC newspaper where the writer expressed shock, SHOCK I say, that one-half of NYC school children read below average. Not below grade level, but below average. I found myself muttering "And the definition of average IS?"

[Erik]

Then there was the news report in a NYC newspaper where the writer expressed shock, SHOCK I say, that one-half of NYC school children read below average. Not below grade level, but below average. I found myself muttering "And the definition of average IS?"

The real outrage is that only 10% of students are in the top 10th percentile. That's not fair to the other students.

[Weetabix]

Brace yourselves for an omnibus reply! I find this whole topic at once entertaining, fascinating, and infuriating.

Technical English writing is for worthless English teachers and professors, in the real world it doesn't really matter for shit when people understand your content and writing.

That may be true in an internet forum where the participants argue the relative merits of stamps. In real business, the author bears responsibility for what he wrote, and if a reasonable person can arrive at an alternative (but reasonable) meaning, the reader wins if there is money at stake. See construction dispute resolution.

In reality no one cares about active voice vs passive voice

Actually I do. Probably because it was beaten into of me during Effective Writing courses during ROTC and Squadron Officer School.

Passive voice is often a rhetorical dodge used by those trying to evade responsibility for their actions, thoughts, or words. It's the language of scum bag gutless politicians and bureaucrats. It's part of our precious snowflake society where every answer is correct if we "feel" it is and no one ever has to take blame for anything because "they" (i.e. Somdood) did it.

This. As a bonus, active voice is more economical. "is used by those" 4 words. "[strike]assholes[/strike] people use" 2 words.

in the real world it doesn't really matter for shit when people understand your content and writing.

It's about the message. In the SIGINT world we refer to message externals, things you can tell from a message even if you can't read the text.

The externals of a poorly written and edited professional document (such as a resume, job application, instructional manual, etc) tell me you don't give a shit about the product, are too stupid to know you should be ashamed to produce such a product, too lazy to get someone to proofread and edit it, or you don't think I'm worth your time to put an effort into doing it right.

And this.

Business and resumes are different because we're not actually caring about the content of information being passed across. That's pretty obvious, what we're looking for is the intent and "seriousness" of an employee working here, and having grammatical mistakes is an indication that an employee is really not all that serious about working here. The same goes for other documents being submitted such as financial statements and earnings. In reality grammatical correctness has the same role as the nice suit and tie vs the jeans and silk screened t-shirt.

Not to pick on you, but no, it is not the case that in business and resumes "we're not actually caring about the content of information being passed across."

We do care about the content. Would you hire an employee who presented you an impeccably written resume whose contents were meaningless or completely unrelated to the work you do? I hope not.

The reality is that words are the tools with which you construct your thoughts and with which you convey those thoughts to others. If you are inept using those tools in expression, others must consider the possibility that you are also inept at using those tools to construct the very thoughts that you have not been able to convey clearly. Would you hire a plumber who could only use a hammer? The slim possibility exists that he can construct plumbing marvels with only a hammer, but the smart money bets otherwise.

For us old farts, ...

I'm a child of the 80's, but that's how it was when I went to school.

For me, too.

Precise writing really is something that matters, in direct proportion to the amount of damage that can be caused through failure to understand what is written.

Exactly.

I certainly do care. When I see that someone is sloppy in their use of language, it makes me wonder what else they are sloppy about. That's not the same as nitpicking about errors in casual writing like posts here, or blog posts, which is pointless.

Again - Amen!

I regard written words as keys that unlock concepts in the mind of the reader. Misspelled words are like keys that don't quite fit, but they'll work if you jiggle the lock a bit. This is very distracting as it disrupts the flow of the ideas.

I agree.

[strike]Anyone want to proofread this thread?[/strike]

Would anyone like to proofread this thread?

There you go again, you bomb-thrower. The matters this thread is considering range over a continuum. You've constructed a false dilemma for us: Writing is either correct or incorrect.

The writer must consider the weight of the subject matter (see NPR's comment), his audience, his purpose, etc. This thread is a discussion on the back porch. As Denis pointed out, nitpicking here would be pointless. But we can discuss the topic accurately (within the bounds of its importance) without grammatical precision. Like the concept of accuracy vs. precision in science (It is precise to say that you have 3.4126 eyes, but it is accurate to say that you have 2.), grammar in this context is important to the extent that it doesn't impede understanding. I think the point of the OP is that much of grammar has gotten so imprecise that it destroys understanding. [/sidetrack] [/well.. at least sort of...]

I am daily astounded by the lack of skill displayed.

I am astounded daily by the lack of skill displayed.

Correct me if I'm wrong (please!), but I think this is more an example of a style choice than of a grammatical error.

As already mentioned, IMO sloppy writing reflects sloppy thinking. I am constantly amazed and disgusted when visiting arfcom--many of the members there can barely put together a coherent thought...

Agree with regard to sloppy thinking. Be careful, though: Yogi says you should write, "I am amazed constantly..."

The best part about glass houses is that you can beam fuckers in the head with rocks through walls.

If, that is, the fuckers are saying what you think they're saying.

[Weetabix]

P.S. Being able to diagram sentences netted me money in a design contract negotiation once.

[Windy Wilson]

P.S. Being able to diagram sentences netted me money in a design contract negotiation once.

And yet another thing I've been shortchanged on in life!

As for stylistic differences, "Forgive him, for he believes the customs of his tribe are the laws of nature." G.B. Shaw.

How many forums out there have such a wide range of topics, informed and well-mannered posters AND the opportunity to indulge in some Shavian wit?

[Denis]

How many forums out there have such a wide range of topics, informed and well-mannered posters AND the opportunity to indulge in some Shavian wit?

Wrong thread. Shavian wit is over here

[blackeagle603]

M: Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to
just stand...!!
Abuser: OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
M: Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
Abuser: Ah yes, you want room 12a, Just along the
corridor.

[bubblewhip]

The purpose of language and writing is to translate information across. In my opinion the better writer is someone who can translate information more clearly and more concisely over a paper than one with superior technical writing skills.

If you want to see the most precise and most technically perfect writing, open a modern school textbook, legal document, or government document. Does anyone here consider most legal contracts "well written?" I had a Pearson Physics Textbook that was reviewed by over 50 teachers and was absolute crap in explaining physics.

Legal documents have a horrible tendency to use some of the most unclear language as well as some of the most longest and least used synonyms, sometimes to make it as unreadable as possible but are technically excellent.