About poplar, it is not the best wood to take a stain, and left natural you will get the green tinges. It is usually used for trim that is going to be painted. Plus for making long wide shelves I would worry about it warping and twisting
I am terrible about visionizing how you are making the shelves, but if you are making face frames I would consider using the red oak boards and then for the shelf itself use a cheap plywood, even pine. If the shelves are full it won't be that noticable. For tht cutouts you can use oak ply where it is visable.
Poplar or Plywood....
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SeekHer
- Posts: 2286
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Re: Poplar or Plywood....
What I had done for a similar build as you described is:
Took ¾” good 1 side plywood and used those for the sidewalls and 5/8” (I think maybe ½”) plywood for the backs. Found some really good 1 x 12 boards and used them for the shelves…
I built the unit with non adjustable shelves so I took my router and dadoed where the shelves would be on the sides and back, this way I got support to the shelf along the whole back to help in preventing sagging…Can’t remember the depth but I think 5/8th on the side and 7/16th on the back but I’m guessing here…
I took the plywood for the sides, doubled them up so I had 1½” thick side walls and screwed them together…I dadoed the back ply length wise as some of the shelf sections had to be wider then 4’ and screwed them to the rear. Took my 1x12s, slid the into the grooves and screwed them in place—pre-drilled holes—and was almost finished…
Oh, we pre-stained all the wood before assembly…
To finish it off, took 1x2s, fitted them to the ply sidewall and screwed them in place to hide the joint and just did a basic picture frame facing--45 corners—
You can get a JIG from the woodworker shops that will allow you to drill shelf holes in the front and back…It is an indispensable tool and if I would have had it then I would have used it instead of the router…I went with just screws as we knew that it would have to be expanded upon or moved to another room—eventually to my wife’s office and this way it just came apart and it was a lot cheaper then using KD hardware but I’d go that route now…Oh, I should point out that the unit was 8’ high and 20’ long and covered one wall entirely…I’d drill holes up the back wall as well to help support the shelves and hopefully prevent sagging…Even with 50 hardbacks on one shelf for 10 years there is no significant bend to the shelf but that is with a router and not pins…Along the back you might only have to drill every 2nd or 3rd or maybe even 4th hole for the support pins…
I also built another bookshelf, to be used as an 100 gallon aquarium stand and bookshelf with 1x2s…Went to the lumber yard and picked out some straight 12’ boards of pine, ran them through a table saw to get all the widths the same and then through a planer/sander to finish them off…As this wasn’t going to be adjustable shelves either I rigged a drilling jig so that all the holes would align for the different locations…
Now the fun part comes along! You get your kids to help out…You start by laying the framework on the floor to the correct dimensions for shelves as such and then proceed to stack the boards on top of each other, like Lincoln Logs and you build the unit to the proper depth…I then took some wooden doweling, sharpened one end and had the girls proceed to drive it down through the pre-drilled holes, got to the bottom, sawed off the remainder and finished…
I had gotten some 1x2 heartwood Redwood boards and used them for the face, cutting the boards to fit the shelves and what would be called legs or sides…Ran them through the saw/planer as well…got a can of deep Redwood stain and pre stained all the pine before assembly and then used Tung Oil for the Redwood facings…It looked great and you had to get real close to see that it wasn’t all Redwood…With the gaps between the boards it allows wires or tubes to pass through as well as allowing air to circulate around the books so they don’t get that punky smell…
It held the 100 gal as well as above, one 10 gal and a 20 gal that were used as sick tanks and two 50 gal tanks below and off to the sides and with about 700 books and it never sagged…I made sure it was supported underneath with a load bearing wall in the basement and added two extra “Molly” adjustable posts as well…The shelves never sagged nor the floor…It is the strongest unit type we ever built and when finished all the girls had to make their own for “whatever” purpose and they housed books, rodent cages, girl stuff…It also used the cheapest wood for the main portions and plain grained wood for the face…
The first one doors could have been added but the second one they would have no purpose…I have no idea what wood would cost you for either one but they are cheapest way to go that I’m aware of and it ends up relying on good quality stain to hide the poorer quality of the inside wood…Now if you deleted the cost of the stain and bought better wood it might work out the same…
This winter, we'll be building a few of the latter style for the girls' rooms and make it into a family thing...They have been getting books and stuff like crazy and I know that I'll have to build some more for the adults' books but I'll do some raised panel doors on the bottom glass doors on top and probably make it out of cherry or walnut as the unit (s) are going in the formal library/den...The first are definite but I'm still not sure about the second to build as I really don't have the shop setup to do it here so would have to go to a relatives and buld it there and haul it home and assemble it...It's just harder for the girls to participate this way and want to use it to improve their woodworking skills...
Good luck on your project and we would all like to see pictures of the finished unit...Well, at least I do!
Took ¾” good 1 side plywood and used those for the sidewalls and 5/8” (I think maybe ½”) plywood for the backs. Found some really good 1 x 12 boards and used them for the shelves…
I built the unit with non adjustable shelves so I took my router and dadoed where the shelves would be on the sides and back, this way I got support to the shelf along the whole back to help in preventing sagging…Can’t remember the depth but I think 5/8th on the side and 7/16th on the back but I’m guessing here…
I took the plywood for the sides, doubled them up so I had 1½” thick side walls and screwed them together…I dadoed the back ply length wise as some of the shelf sections had to be wider then 4’ and screwed them to the rear. Took my 1x12s, slid the into the grooves and screwed them in place—pre-drilled holes—and was almost finished…
Oh, we pre-stained all the wood before assembly…
To finish it off, took 1x2s, fitted them to the ply sidewall and screwed them in place to hide the joint and just did a basic picture frame facing--45 corners—
You can get a JIG from the woodworker shops that will allow you to drill shelf holes in the front and back…It is an indispensable tool and if I would have had it then I would have used it instead of the router…I went with just screws as we knew that it would have to be expanded upon or moved to another room—eventually to my wife’s office and this way it just came apart and it was a lot cheaper then using KD hardware but I’d go that route now…Oh, I should point out that the unit was 8’ high and 20’ long and covered one wall entirely…I’d drill holes up the back wall as well to help support the shelves and hopefully prevent sagging…Even with 50 hardbacks on one shelf for 10 years there is no significant bend to the shelf but that is with a router and not pins…Along the back you might only have to drill every 2nd or 3rd or maybe even 4th hole for the support pins…
I also built another bookshelf, to be used as an 100 gallon aquarium stand and bookshelf with 1x2s…Went to the lumber yard and picked out some straight 12’ boards of pine, ran them through a table saw to get all the widths the same and then through a planer/sander to finish them off…As this wasn’t going to be adjustable shelves either I rigged a drilling jig so that all the holes would align for the different locations…
Now the fun part comes along! You get your kids to help out…You start by laying the framework on the floor to the correct dimensions for shelves as such and then proceed to stack the boards on top of each other, like Lincoln Logs and you build the unit to the proper depth…I then took some wooden doweling, sharpened one end and had the girls proceed to drive it down through the pre-drilled holes, got to the bottom, sawed off the remainder and finished…
I had gotten some 1x2 heartwood Redwood boards and used them for the face, cutting the boards to fit the shelves and what would be called legs or sides…Ran them through the saw/planer as well…got a can of deep Redwood stain and pre stained all the pine before assembly and then used Tung Oil for the Redwood facings…It looked great and you had to get real close to see that it wasn’t all Redwood…With the gaps between the boards it allows wires or tubes to pass through as well as allowing air to circulate around the books so they don’t get that punky smell…
It held the 100 gal as well as above, one 10 gal and a 20 gal that were used as sick tanks and two 50 gal tanks below and off to the sides and with about 700 books and it never sagged…I made sure it was supported underneath with a load bearing wall in the basement and added two extra “Molly” adjustable posts as well…The shelves never sagged nor the floor…It is the strongest unit type we ever built and when finished all the girls had to make their own for “whatever” purpose and they housed books, rodent cages, girl stuff…It also used the cheapest wood for the main portions and plain grained wood for the face…
The first one doors could have been added but the second one they would have no purpose…I have no idea what wood would cost you for either one but they are cheapest way to go that I’m aware of and it ends up relying on good quality stain to hide the poorer quality of the inside wood…Now if you deleted the cost of the stain and bought better wood it might work out the same…
This winter, we'll be building a few of the latter style for the girls' rooms and make it into a family thing...They have been getting books and stuff like crazy and I know that I'll have to build some more for the adults' books but I'll do some raised panel doors on the bottom glass doors on top and probably make it out of cherry or walnut as the unit (s) are going in the formal library/den...The first are definite but I'm still not sure about the second to build as I really don't have the shop setup to do it here so would have to go to a relatives and buld it there and haul it home and assemble it...It's just harder for the girls to participate this way and want to use it to improve their woodworking skills...
Good luck on your project and we would all like to see pictures of the finished unit...Well, at least I do!
There is a certain type of mentality that thinks if you make certain inanimate objects illegal their criminal misuse will disappear!
Damn the TSA and Down with the BATF(u)E!
Support the J P F O to "Give them the Boot"!!
Damn the TSA and Down with the BATF(u)E!
Support the J P F O to "Give them the Boot"!!
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HTRN
- Posts: 12403
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:05 am
Re: Poplar or Plywood....
Chris, the last time I was in Costco(NJ), they had a halfway decent 7 foot bookcase for 200 bucks. You might want to take a look before starting this. it was fairly dark wood though.
Me? I'd build the carcass out of furniture grade plywood(from a stability/strength standpoint it beats solid wood), and then use a hardwood faceframe. Homedepot has Cherry and Birch that I know of, don't know about others(walnut, Redoak, etc). Should about the best way to go if you do decide to build it yourself.
And oh, if you don't have one, get one of those drill jigs for drilling the pegholes, makes life so much easier..
HTRN
Me? I'd build the carcass out of furniture grade plywood(from a stability/strength standpoint it beats solid wood), and then use a hardwood faceframe. Homedepot has Cherry and Birch that I know of, don't know about others(walnut, Redoak, etc). Should about the best way to go if you do decide to build it yourself.
And oh, if you don't have one, get one of those drill jigs for drilling the pegholes, makes life so much easier..
HTRN
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat
Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt
Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt
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SeekHer
- Posts: 2286
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:27 am
Re: Poplar or Plywood....
I built mine that way because we knew that they would have to be moved and that since we were using it for books the heights were already established...You could use the plywood and the peg adj. shelves and face them with 1x1s ripped and planed to size...
I don't remember their name but there was an Italian (?) designer who used a system of uprights made of marine grade plywood--because he wanted teak--but used two 1x4s as the shelves in a 10" wall/upright...yes, there was a 2' gap in the middle but it looked really neat...won some awards for it if I remember correctly...
What about using glass or Plexiglas for the shelves or maybe steel wire shelving?
I don't remember their name but there was an Italian (?) designer who used a system of uprights made of marine grade plywood--because he wanted teak--but used two 1x4s as the shelves in a 10" wall/upright...yes, there was a 2' gap in the middle but it looked really neat...won some awards for it if I remember correctly...
What about using glass or Plexiglas for the shelves or maybe steel wire shelving?
There is a certain type of mentality that thinks if you make certain inanimate objects illegal their criminal misuse will disappear!
Damn the TSA and Down with the BATF(u)E!
Support the J P F O to "Give them the Boot"!!
Damn the TSA and Down with the BATF(u)E!
Support the J P F O to "Give them the Boot"!!
-
HTRN
- Posts: 12403
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:05 am
Re: Poplar or Plywood....
Eh, just a thought.CByrneIV wrote:For that $200 book case (I know which one you're talking about, we considered it); I would need 8 of them, and that still wouldn't cover the corner of the room, the room divider, or the entertainment center.
HTRN
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat
Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt
Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt
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Rich Jordan
- Posts: 1840
- Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:04 am
Re: Poplar or Plywood....
Two thoughts.
First: Poplar can be hard to stain as Fivetoes noted. I've read (but never tried) that the various alcohol based dyes can work well on it (similar to its use on beech rifle stocks; a lot of M1s came back from Denmark with beech that was difficult to stain, but took the dye very nicely.
Second: although I haven't seen it in a while at the local stores, we actually put up wall mounted oak shelves in our loft back in the 1990s. It was made by one of the manufacturers of closet shelving units (not Rubbermaid, but they also made the same kind of white coated wire stuff) and intended as the 'premium' part of their line. The shelves have oak slats running front to back, and rails running lengthwise. They attach to the wall with metal hooks in the back and a cantilevered wood support every few feet along that braces it (again, very much like the white wire closet stuff).
We use the clear plastic matting that is sold for wire shelves to provide a solid surface for the books. I imagine a sheet of masonite or plywood (1/4" would not stick above the rails) would also suffice and could be stained to match (or have veneer applied).
The shelves look good in our loft. You could probably fabricate uprights out of compatible wood to cover the front and back corners if the 'free floating' appearance didn't work for you.
Concept picture of just the shelf from Amazon; this is much more expensive than we paid, and the wrong wood but it shows the shelf... http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KPWICS?smi ... nkCode=asn
First: Poplar can be hard to stain as Fivetoes noted. I've read (but never tried) that the various alcohol based dyes can work well on it (similar to its use on beech rifle stocks; a lot of M1s came back from Denmark with beech that was difficult to stain, but took the dye very nicely.
Second: although I haven't seen it in a while at the local stores, we actually put up wall mounted oak shelves in our loft back in the 1990s. It was made by one of the manufacturers of closet shelving units (not Rubbermaid, but they also made the same kind of white coated wire stuff) and intended as the 'premium' part of their line. The shelves have oak slats running front to back, and rails running lengthwise. They attach to the wall with metal hooks in the back and a cantilevered wood support every few feet along that braces it (again, very much like the white wire closet stuff).
We use the clear plastic matting that is sold for wire shelves to provide a solid surface for the books. I imagine a sheet of masonite or plywood (1/4" would not stick above the rails) would also suffice and could be stained to match (or have veneer applied).
The shelves look good in our loft. You could probably fabricate uprights out of compatible wood to cover the front and back corners if the 'free floating' appearance didn't work for you.
Concept picture of just the shelf from Amazon; this is much more expensive than we paid, and the wrong wood but it shows the shelf... http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KPWICS?smi ... nkCode=asn
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JAG2955
- Posts: 3044
- Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:21 pm
Re: Poplar or Plywood....
You might be able to modify this plan to your liking.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_jo ... 68525.html
He builds a plywood frame with non adjustable dadoed shelves, then faces the box with hardwood. Granted, I wouldn't bother with biscuit-joining like he did, and I'd just sink finishing nails into it.
As soon as I can find time to access the base hobby shop, I'm going to do one like this for our office room.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_jo ... 68525.html
He builds a plywood frame with non adjustable dadoed shelves, then faces the box with hardwood. Granted, I wouldn't bother with biscuit-joining like he did, and I'd just sink finishing nails into it.
As soon as I can find time to access the base hobby shop, I'm going to do one like this for our office room.