design input for mk IV Chest Plate

[308Mike]

BTW - I got your email, but I haven't been able to stay logged in to Hotmail long enough to reply, it's not been working properly for about 3 days now. I suppose it'll sort itself out eventually...

Compose your reply offline, then copy and paste it into the reply box once you've got the email up, then hit SEND. Minimum amount of time in your mailbox.

[Combat Controller]

A note; the armor industry designs it to be sacrificial, it's ok to replace as long as it stopped the round. Multiple hits in the exact same area are almost unheard of. As long as you survive the fight you are in, you can always make/get more armor.

[Precision]

A note; the armor industry designs it to be sacrificial, it's ok to replace as long as it stopped the round. Multiple hits in the exact same area are almost unheard of. As long as you survive the fight you are in, you can always make/get more armor.

I agree to this entirely.

However, as we are all taught:
"if it needs shot once, double tap"
"if in doubt shoot it again"
with the likelihood of facing semi auto fire...

I would much rather have a plate that can take multiple hits and remain functional than build one that is completely worthless after one hit. The Mk III plate could take 2 (perhaps more) 9mm hits in exactly the same spot and defeat the bullets. It did take 6 or 8 hits from various calibers and stop them all. To include 7mm, 7.62 x54R and 7.62 x 39. None of these shots hit in the same location (on purpose) and I am not attempting to build for that, but the plate not being able to take multiple strikes across its face is poor when it can easily be designed to accomplish that.

I am definitely a belt and suspenders kind of guy with this type of stuff. But I think that is a good thing, here.

Once we decide on a method, the son and I will be making multiple copies to add to our SHTF inventory and for replacements if the F ever sends projectiles our way.

hmmm wondering how chest plate design deviates to work on thin framed women with D and D+ frontal fun?
Like I need a new project. But it does involve BOOBIES.

[Yogimus]

A note; the armor industry designs it to be sacrificial, it's ok to replace as long as it stopped the round. Multiple hits in the exact same area are almost unheard of. As long as you survive the fight you are in, you can always make/get more armor.

I agree to this entirely.

However, as we are all taught:
"if it needs shot once, double tap"
"if in doubt shoot it again"
with the likelihood of facing semi auto fire...

I would much rather have a plate that can take multiple hits and remain functional than build one that is completely worthless after one hit. The Mk III plate could take 2 (perhaps more) 9mm hits in exactly the same spot and defeat the bullets. It did take 6 or 8 hits from various calibers and stop them all. To include 7mm, 7.62 x54R and 7.62 x 39. None of these shots hit in the same location (on purpose) and I am not attempting to build for that, but the plate not being able to take multiple strikes across its face is poor when it can easily be designed to accomplish that.

I am definitely a belt and suspenders kind of guy with this type of stuff. But I think that is a good thing, here.

Once we decide on a method, the son and I will be making multiple copies to add to our SHTF inventory and for replacements if the F ever sends projectiles our way.

hmmm wondering how chest plate design deviates to work on thin framed women with D and D+ frontal fun?
Like I need a new project. But it does involve BOOBIES.

Laminating plastic bags together seems to be effective on small calibers (used a box of shopping bags as a back stop before)

[Combat Controller]

Try liquid latex.

[Aglifter]

Only here would a thread involving mammaries and latex be PG...

[Precision]

Only here would a thread involving mammaries and latex be PG...

resisting the [strike]need[/strike] [strike]desire[/strike] urge to combine those in a manner WAY past PG.

[FastRope71]

There is that spray on rubber (Flex seal?) sold at wally world for about 13 dollars. probably similar to your bedliner stuff, but I thought it worth mentioning.

Also there are the small tiles with the netting molded in. This mesh figure about 3/8 inch thick or less per layer, standard gap between 1" tiles.

Another material for adhering your tile to the fabric would be spray adhesive. 3m and durcon (sp?) both make it. I think I found my can @ Home depot.

If I were to have a go at it I think I would use hexagonal tiles with about 1/16" or less gap between them adhered to nylon cloth or kevlar, and layered sheet/tile/sheetx2/tile/sheetx2/tile/sheetx2. That gives you 3 layers of tile, and 7 layers of nylon. Weight would be about on par with a commercial vest. resistance according to your current postings is on par or exceeds level IIIA. one nice thing would be that you might not need to attach the layers to one another (saving perhaps the innermost layer if actually pressed into service).

I have two kilns, so if needed we might be able to figure out a way to make our own tiles for less than commercial, seeing as how we don't need the pretty stain that makes them attractive to home improvement customers. we might even be able to mold in the gap and let the tiles fracture from each other on their own after being attached to the nylon layers. Kind of like a slightly overfilled ice tray.

[HTRN]

There was a recent thread in GD about AR500 plate for armor carriers. Although originally about "ripping off designs", it rapidly turned into a discussion on the merits of AR500, vs Titanium vs. Ceramic. It came down to AR500 was for the budget conscience(if you're willing to do your own cutting, foot square pieces of 3/8" plate can be had on Ebay for 40 bucks, and their are guys churning out proper cut inserts made from AR500 for a bit more, theTargetman.com for instance, sells a set of them for 75ish) The downside is that the raw plates lack a spall liner, which means it still kill you if bullet fragments catch you under the chin, or enter the femoral artery in your leg. Fortunately, you can make your own spall liner out of a 3-4 layers of ballictic Kevlar cloth, available from Armorco.com. Just sew up a pocket, and then stich it shut.

[Precision]

There is that spray on rubber (Flex seal?) sold at wally world for about 13 dollars. probably similar to your bedliner stuff, but I thought it worth mentioning.

Also there are the small tiles with the netting molded in. This mesh figure about 3/8 inch thick or less per layer, standard gap between 1" tiles.

we thought of that. But most of those tiles are BARELY held on to the mesh. We thought we might adapt that idea using fiberglass mesh designed for car bondo and super gluing the tiles to it.

Another material for adhering your tile to the fabric would be spray adhesive. 3m and durcon (sp?) both make it. I think I found my can @ Home depot.

Thought of that too but the adhesive really doesn't work on the shiny side at all - at least the spray adhesive I own. not so great on the textured side either. The bumps that help hold the thin set don't help hold our mesh on at all.

If I were to have a go at it I think I would use hexagonal tiles with about 1/16" or less gap between them adhered to nylon cloth or kevlar, and layered sheet/tile/sheetx2/tile/sheetx2/tile/sheetx2. That gives you 3 layers of tile, and 7 layers of nylon. Weight would be about on par with a commercial vest. resistance according to your current postings is on par or exceeds level IIIA. one nice thing would be that you might not need to attach the layers to one another (saving perhaps the innermost layer if actually pressed into service).

Now this Sir, sounds like genius. I thought that porcelain had to be fired under pressure, but after doing some research it doesn't look like that is the case. By doing you hexagon idea and having custom thickness of tiles...that adds up to super awesome. Now the question is how do you make the tiles as strong as the commercial ones. We are currently using grade 4 tile remnants - which are easily twice if not 4 times stronger than ceramic tiles.

I have two kilns, so if needed we might be able to figure out a way to make our own tiles for less than commercial, seeing as how we don't need the pretty stain that makes them attractive to home improvement customers. we might even be able to mold in the gap and let the tiles fracture from each other on their own after being attached to the nylon layers. Kind of like a slightly overfilled ice tray.

our latest hair brained idea is to dip each tile into bedliner and allow to dry onto a layer of fiberglass mesh, then assemble our tile layers by sticking one layer of mesh to the top of the next with some additional bed liner. With your idea we could either do that with the entire 9x12 sheet or make 1.5 x 12 sheets and line them up next to each other on the mesh to make a layer.

The second way would work pretty easily for offset by doing half a tile to start one strip and a full tile for the next one and reverse the order on the layer underneath. Or we could do the outermost layer in hex and the next layer in squares or triangles to reduce overlap of gaps.
I need to sit down and figure out some things on this. But it is a very good idea that I had sorta toyed with and discarded as impractical. Thank you for making me dig in and research better.