Will probably need a new truck sooner rather than later...

[blackeagle603]

Factor in the life of a diesel vs a gas engine too.

At 200K I'd have a worn out gas engine. At 210K I have a broke in diesel with (good Lord willing and some maintenance/repairs) another 200K in it.

[rightisright]

If your fuel economy is that poor in your diesel

Granted, the last time I did the math was w. back in '07 when I bought an 02' F350 diesel. Including the extra $$ for the used diesel (IIRC the difference between it and a similar V10 was $5K at the time) and higher maintenance costs, it came out very close. Both of the 7.3 Powerstrokes (CC w. 8' bed w. 4.10 rears) I had got ~13-14 MPG empty. Those figures are very much in line w. the results of a quick google search.

Also, there are some $$$ parts that only diesels have. I recall having to replace the primary lift pump in my 99 Dodge 2500 twice after the 100K warranty ran out. ~$2200 each time.

Now I should add, I only keep work vehicles 4-5 years (and I try to buy ones that are at least 3-4 years old but in great shape) because employees are hard on them and they start to look like crap after that amount of time... yeah, good help is [strike]hard[/strike] almost impossible to find.

So if you plan on keeping your vehicle much longer than that and are personally driving it most of the time, the diesel wins out.

[evan price]

Not all spark ignition engines are worn out at 200K. It just depends on how well you maintain your trucks and if you beat the heck out of them. I treat stuff fairly average, I try not to tear them up but I consider a vehicle a tool like an axe or a pistol and use it as I need. I just do very good maintenance. I can't think of any of my daily drivers that have not gone over 250,000 miles before being retired, usually due to rust or damage. I'm the guy who took a 2.5 liter Jeep Cherokee almost 350,000 on the original motor before it failed which took some doing.

My daily driver fleet is a Tundra V-8 with 210K, a Jeep Cherokee 4.0 liter with 300K on it, a Toyota T-100 3.0 liter with 180K on it and a Buick Park Avenue 3800 with 187K on it.

My current family truckster is a 2003 Toyota Tundra 4x4 with the iForce V8 I bought new. Not the VVT-I version with enhanced power output, I missed that by a year or two. Cruising at 75 mph with the A/C on, a bed full of tools and machine parts (about 2000 pounds worth) I was getting around 24 mpg. Around town I get typically 16-17 mpg. I've got around 210,000 miles on the truck now. Not using a drop of anything and the mileage has not gone down. Plenty of power to haul a 5000 pound trailer and a family of four on long trips. I've used it to skid timber in the UP, move machinery, tow equipment trailers, set trash compactors, and survey utility rights-of-way on fire roads and timber cuts. Only had it stuck once (And of course that was with the family on board...)

In terms of engine repairs, I've changed a couple O2 sensors, the spark plugs at 130K, and at 195K I did the timing belt & tensioner/idler bearings & water pump as preventative maintenance. General repairs- a few sets of brake pads, a set of front swaybar endlinks, the accessory belt and the rear shocks. It's going to get rear brake shoes here before Easter travelling. But that's all normal maintenance items. Plus tires, and lots and lots of lube oil and filter changes.

The only thing that's failed I consider abnormal was I replaced the rack & pinion unit a couple years ago due to the body tube rusting out and splitting. Dealer confirms this is a known issue with salt-belt Toyotas of all types, the R&P was made by TRW here in the USA. Fortunately I got a nice low-mileage R&P from a rollover at a local salvage yard for $185 and put it in myself.

[JAG2955]

I think that I should clarify that my rationale for wanting a larger truck is that it will very much be used as a utility truck. Not much towing (I think), but lots of hauling stuff in the bed. I'm willing to pay the extra for diesel fuel, since I think that it will work out in the long run, both by getting better gas mileage and by lasting longer. I will probably keep the damn thing forever. I do plan to live out in the boonies and homestead, so that should set the mood for how I'm going to use this.

The price to fix the alternator is relatively cheap. I'd love to just get the part and do it myself, but not only do I not have the time, I don't have a place to do it, or have another vehicle to drive if I screw it up for awhile.

[blackeagle603]

There's the advantage of driving a diesel too -- in the circumstance you describe. For my money, no comparision to driving a gas motor.

As for longevity I think Evan made my point. At 200K we start thinking our gas motor has had a good run and any extra is gravy. In a diesel you're looking out to 400K to have that thought. Plus, you've driving/hauling with a diesel the whole time vice a gas motor.

[McClarkus]

Yeah, I must admit, as much as I love a gas engine in a light fast car; the way a diesel delivers power is so much better for a big heavy truck, it aint even funny.

If you don't have experience driving both, you just sort of think of the way gas trucks drive as normal. Moving to a diesel is a revelation.

That is certainly true. My buddy had never driven a diesel when I loaned him my 2002 Dodge 2500. When he got the truck back, the first words out of his mouth was "Holy Crap. That thing gets up and goes."

[HTRN]

Alot of the mileage advantages are going away with direct injection being used on gas engines. And the "advantages" of diesels overlooks some things.

Typically a diesel option is anywhere from 3000 to 7000 more.
Diesels cost more in regular maintenance - the Cummins for instance, uses 12 quarts of oil.
Parts are generally more expensive.

Yes, Many diesels will last longer - the 5.9 was originally slated as a medium duty truck engine - it was commonly seen in city buses, with a service life of 4 million miles, with rebuilds every 400,000 miles. But here's the thing, sure the motor will last that long, but what about the rest of the truck? A motor that lasts forever doesn't do you any good if the rest of the truck is ready for the scrap yard after 10 years of hard running.

As for the Big 3...
Ford has huge problems with the 6.0 Powerstroke(it had something like 33 recall notices on it), and the 6.4 was basically a redesign of the same motor. I wouldn't touch EITHER of them with a ten foot pole. The new Ford Diesels are coming with a new 6 speed, so it may be something to look into.

Dodge has probably the best engine with the worst transmission like Chris said. The second biggest problem with them is the suspension - it seems like they love to eat suspension components on a regular basis. A lesser problem the manual guys run into is the clutch is adequate for the factory motor... barely. If you drive like a little old lady. Put a chip in and have a lead foot and you can expect a clutch replacement in short order. Also, the VP44 fuel injection pump in late 90s and early 2000s is known to have "issues".

The Duramax is pretty good motor(it was designed by Isuzu), has the optional Allison transmission. Unfortunately, like all GM trucks, it suffers from GMs foilables on quality. Also, the Allison is frikken HUGE transmission, and doesn't fit in the transmission tunnel right - they had to give it a body lift and a spacer between the grill and bumper to cram it in.

[blackeagle603]

But here's the thing, sure the motor will last that long, but what about the rest of the truck?

keeps on going too. Upholstery and paint is cheaper than payments on a $50K+ new vehicle. Had the leather (seat bottoms) in the front of my Excursion redone last winter just before 200K. Took care of some other odds and ends on the interior same time. Still feeling pretty fresh. Time for some body work (wife jackknifed a trailer backing it down the hill). Though for you'ze guyz in salt states I reckon the calculus is different.

My bro-in-law (contractor) runs his Ford diesel trucks to well north of 300K and then usually sells them to one of his regular hands (all Mexican or Central American) who keeps on driving it, and driving it, and driving it...


...and then there's tags and transfer fees. Yeah let's not talk about the tax on any vehicle purchase in CA + the annual difference in vehicle licensing between a new truck and a 10 year old one in CA. Ouch.

....and then there's the paying comprehensive insurance on a new(er) vehicle.

even a couple grand year in additional repairs would be looking cheap.

[Termite]

I wish I could buy a small-midsized 4-door pickup with a 3.0-4.2 TDI. VW's European 3.0 V-6 TDI has 245hp, 406 lbs tq.

[evan price]

There's the advantage of driving a diesel too -- in the circumstance you describe. For my money, no comparision to driving a gas motor.

As for longevity I think Evan made my point. At 200K we start thinking our gas motor has had a good run and any extra is gravy. In a diesel you're looking out to 400K to have that thought. Plus, you've driving/hauling with a diesel the whole time vice a gas motor.

The longevity of a Diesel is based on heavier-duty components and a simple operating scheme. (Just to clarify, I'm still going on about older Diesels)
Those 12-valve 6BT Cummins motors were known to live because they were dead nuts simple. I have a friend who runs 5 of them in his machinery. Two wheel loaders, two excavators and a stationary power unit for an air compressor/generator/welder rig. Hours on each is well over 20,000 and so far only one has been out for overhaul due to a turbocharger seal failing and causing a runaway (Snuffed with a CO2 extinguisher). They are getting long in the tooth and probably due for freshening up but do good maintenance and they last and last.

The newer electric computerized Diesels are not going to be that long lasting, IMHO, simply because the electrical parts will fail. Mechanically- block, heads, crankshaft, etc- probably no worries. High pressure direct injection common rail components- a different story.