Operating a generator

[nemonis]

I haven't personally done this, but my father up in Alaska has a dedicated gen-in cord outside, feeding into the main panel through a second main breaker. The two breakers have a mechanical interlock so both mains CANNOT be live at the same time without partially disassembling the main panel.

Having seen what happens when a power line drops and cooks, please do it right. The line was down on the gravel road for several hours without blowing the main fuse (dry weather). When the line was disconnected, the firemen pulled up a rock on the road and found a nice patch of molten glass under it. You REALLY don't want to be heating up the lines outside your house.

God bless!
Wayne

[Windy Wilson]

What capacity Generator? Gas or Kerosene? This is still a gap in my home emergency prep, so I'm interested in what size generator I should buy.
I'll talk to my electrician about doing that special switch when I get him out for some other stuff I need.

[Aglifter]

Remember, if you go w. a natural gas generator, in an emergency, they often cut off the gas as well as the electric.

[randy]

Remember, if you go w. a natural gas generator, in an emergency, they often cut off the gas as well as the electric.

I think it depends on the area and type of an emergency. After an earthquake, then yeah. When I talked with local utility a few years back they told me that they had plans and intended to keep the gas flowing in situation likely to occur to cause mass power outages Ohio such as ice storms, wind storms, tornadoes, etc. If New Madrid cuts loose all bets are off.

One of the local fire departments has one at their HQ, and they have a kit to swap parts out and let it run on propane tanks in case something happens to the gas line. (They only got the kit because their project officer, a friend of mine, is also a practicing paranoid. Probably why we get along),

I'd say talk to your local utility if you're leaning that way to see what the local attitudes are.

[Dedicated_Dad]

...In 99% of house main breaker panels, what you will do is hot up only one buss if you plug in a generator that is making single phase 110/125. This is because almost all modern home breaker panels are set up with two 110/125 busses. Together they make your 220/250 volt circuits. You could hook a jumper from one buss to the other, but that's even more hinky.

Otherwise, DD, you are pretty much correct in your "theoretical" post.

If you are going to backfeed your main breaker panel in an emergency, the best way is to use the 220 volt outlet on the portable generator to feed a 220/250 outlet, such as a clothesdryer or water heater plug. This will hot up both buss bars in your home breaker panel with 110/125...

You're right about the busses - I hadn't thought that through...

In my "theoretical" situation, our (hypothetical) hero (hypothetically) used the 30-amp twist-lok plug to a 30-amp 220 breaker via a drier-socket. He (hypothetically) had a problem with one of the 15-amp "button breakers" on the gen popping - thus cutting input voltage by 50%. Though this SHOULD mean he was (hypothetically) powering only one "leg" - so 1/2 of the circuits in the house should have gone out - he found "brown-out" conditions - bulbs glowing dimly, etc...

Odd...

Having thought it through, and found that one row of breakers had most of the bigger loads, he planned to (hypothetically) re-arrange things so the load was better distributed on the panel's busses...

For clarity, he does have a (hypothetical) checklist which is rigidly followed, and whenever possible double-checked by a (hypothetical) second person.

Even hypothetically one can never be too careful!

What capacity Generator? Gas or Kerosene? This is still a gap in my home emergency prep, so I'm interested in what size generator I should buy.
I'll talk to my electrician about doing that special switch when I get him out for some other stuff I need.

"What capacity?" - depends on your needs. Get a "kill-a-watt" and log your biggest loads (fridge, etc) over a few days - you need extra power for startup of such motors. Then add up the wattage of all "necessity" items to get a rough estimate. I'd recommend going a bit larger than you think you'll need - Murphy WILL come calling... As to Gas vs Diesel, Diesel's going to be A LOT more expensive, though you might luck out like a friend did and scoop up a Caterpillar model big enough to run the neighborhood - with only 400 hours on it - for $1800...

Otherwise, for MOST, Gas seems to be the way to go for portables. There are carbs available online that will let you run them on Propane or NG as well though there's apparently some drop in engine power...

Remember, if you go w. a natural gas generator, in an emergency, they often cut off the gas as well as the electric.

Good point - in a real "earthquake" or the like. I have a buried 500-gal propane tank which I hope to increase to 1000. What I'd really prefer would be a small pad-mounted unit with weekly auto-test and auto-switchover. Power drops and gen kicks on automagically, shuts down and switches back when power is restored. A suitable model for my house can be had for ~$4k, and comes pre-wired so MOST could self-install though I'd probably hire it done - I don't want to mess with the mains... Though I know I could handle it, I'm a bit superstitious. I don't want to mess with the blue-fire-gods.

DD

[308Mike]

Let me tell you, having a generator that can put out a decent amount of power can be a real saver. Our RV generator can put out 4KW sustained, and there have been a few times when the power got knocked out long enough for me to have to rig my 20 amp RV extension cord from the RV to a few power strips in the house.

The last time was during the summer so I had to hook up several fans as well as make sure the refridge and freezer stay cold, so I could supply my wife with cold moisture (drinks and spray) to keep her from getting physically sick.

The power was of good enough quality I could run my UPSs off it, so she could watch TV and use the computers.

When you're considering a generator, you should also think about the quality of power you need. The higher quality power, the more cost of the genset will reflect it. Providing good-quality power, like the stuff coming to your house from the power utility, is not cheap. It all depends on what you need to power with it to determine what kind of power you need. All too often someone buys a generator and after the first major power outage complains some of the sensitive electronics got fried and they don't understand why.

Not all equipment can operate off a modified sine wave coming from most generators. The more expensive units use a pure sine wave - but just try and find that information on the genset's specifications is extremely frustrating. Frequently it takes a call to the manufacturer to find out if their unit puts out a modified or pure sine wave.

Several years ago I was looking to buy a light-weight quiet generator for use with the RV (because I can't stand the loud generator we have, and almost NEVER use the full capacity of the generator, even with the roof AC going). I pretty much settled on the Honda models, 'cause although their little 2000 watt unit cost over $1,000 (when you could buy a Home Depot special pumping out 8500 watts for $500), not only was it quiet, but it also put out a pure sine wave for use with sensitive electronics. They actually used to have the type of sine wave in their advertisements, but over time they discovered the only people who really cared about the sine wave were geeks and electronics nerds. Printing costs money, so they dropped it from much of their advertising, except maybe in certain magazines.

Take a little closer look at your electrical needs, and if necessary, get an AC Power Line Isolator or power conditioner

[Nicodemus]

Ok, after recently aquiring a generator (Homelite E4000-1 "4k watt")but being pretty ignorant in this electrical stuff I have a few questions for using it in an emergency situation.

Regarding the purely hypothetical situation above, if most breaker boxes are two seperate 110v sides combined to produce 220v:

1: How do you tell?
2: If this is the case, can you make 220v power by reverse powering a 110v outlet on each side of the breaker panel making both live?
3: If you don't plan on running a 220v appliance in an emergency situation, can you reverse power 110v through the house for 110v appliances without complications?


On the transfer/crossover box with a rented house:

1: On a rented house, how feasible (how much of a pain in the ass) would it be to remove an installed transfer/crossover before moving to be installed at the next location?
2:Is there anything that can be done asside from the transfer/crossover box between the breaker panel/meter and the power line to ensure power doesn't get from the generator to the line. One could cut the connection at this presumed location and then re-connect it when the neighbors lights come back on.



I am thinking about possible SHTF generator applications as well as general power down emergencies. Does anyone have any ideas on considerably lessoning the noise on a generator without compromising it's performance. I am thinking in a SHTF situation (katrina or worse) there are big security risks with firing up a generator in dead silence in an urban enviroment, like everyone in the neighborhood knowing exactly what you have and approximately where you are once it's fired up.

[HTRN]

Remember, if you go w. a natural gas generator, in an emergency, they often cut off the gas as well as the electric.

That depends on where you are - I happen to live in an area where power outages of any significant length are virtually non existent(number of power outages I've had that lasted more than an hour since the early 70s: 2. And both only lasted about a day). The gas has never stopped flowing.

The downside of a big genset that uses gasoline is you either have to store significant quanties of it(which is a hassle - gasoline has a short storage life, and you have to figure on having at least 20 gallons on hand, probably more), or you had better hope that the local station has a genset so they can run the pumps.

Compare that where the areas that typically need them(rural areas, especially in the Northeast lose power because of winter storms) often have large tanks of propane on hand, which stores really well...


HTRN

[Precision]

I am thinking about possible SHTF generator applications as well as general power down emergencies. Does anyone have any ideas on considerably lessoning the noise on a generator without compromising it's performance. I am thinking in a SHTF situation (katrina or worse) there are big security risks with firing up a generator in dead silence in an urban enviroment, like everyone in the neighborhood knowing exactly what you have and approximately where you are once it's fired up.

One simple way (depending on generator) is to attach a car muffler to (or in place of) the generator muffler. This cut the sound by 75% on one a buddy owns.

Another idea is to get some of the hard insulation skinned with aluminum and make a generator box. The one I have has 3 sides and a top with a 3-4" opening all around the bottom for ventilation. I use this at hunting camp and am really only trying to redirect the sound away from camp. It cuts down noise by 50%+.

Of course doing both would make for greater gains.

or better yet. use the hard insulation idea. Make my 3 sided guy with the opening facing north, then make a second larger one without the bottom gap, facing it south. For arguments sake say leaving a 8" gap between the two boxes (height and width wise) but overlapping by say 50% when you slip it over top of the first one.

This should act like a double turn does for light. Muffle and direct the sound out to the south with the first box, then dampen it and deflect it back north. Plenty of air should get in for cooling and combustion and the sound levels should be LOW.

Down side is it would add 3-4' to each dimension on the storage space of the generator.

[blackeagle603]

oh for pete's sake. so many words...

call a freakin' electrician, get a cutout wired in and be done with it.

in a real emergency you'll find an electrician neighbor to coach you thru safest jury rig.