Jeep SJ, XJ, or GM k5 project truck? Others maybe?

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Netpackrat
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Re: Jeep SJ, XJ, or GM k5 project truck? Others maybe?

Post by Netpackrat »

IrateIrishman wrote:Well I still stand by my recommendation of a second gen Trooper(although the info I posted in the comments on your blog were wrong concerning which diesels swap in).
I have a bit of experience with Troopers (a buddy liked them, and had two of them), and I would NEVER ever recommend that somebody buy one, particularly not as an off road vehicle. They can do it if they have to, but they are prone to break and underpowered in general.
Also I don't know about stainless for bumpers and winch mounts. It seems like it would be a bit hard and brittle for that use(pretty sure there is a reason chro-moly is used for cages and chassis on race cars). There are almost chrome like powder coatings that could be used however.
A lot of people are under the misconception that stainless is harder than regular carbon steel, but in reality it is softer, and more difficult to make something of equivalent strength out of for this reason. People think it is harder because it work hardens easily when they try to drill or cut it, but this is entirely a localized effect limited to the immediate area where they are trying to work the material. Still, I wouldn't want to make critical structural pieces out of it for these reasons, unless I knew exactly what I was doing (I don't). Chris, as an engineer, has a much better chance of working around these drawbacks. For general bumpers, winch mounts, and trail armor it is really hard to beat plain old carbon steel, both from a functional perspective, and relative ease of fabrication. Plus, there is plenty of prior art out there, and from reading the various off road forums you can get a good idea of what is strong enough. Most companies that make bumper and armor will publish the thickness of their parts in their marketing material, and you can leech off their experience as well.

Some of the more extreme rock crawling types are beginning to use 6061 aluminum in thick sections for bumpers and skids. This can save a lot of weight, but it is still very much a niche proposition, and requires a lot more knowledge and specialized equipment. I'm not sure what, if anything, they are doing about the loss of temper in the heat affected zone of their welds. It's possible that they are forming their parts from "0" condition material and then heat treating afterwards, but I kind of doubt that they are. We did a little bit of heat treating aluminum in A&P school, and it is pretty involved, and not exactly a safe process, particularly on a smaller scale.
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blackeagle603
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Re: Jeep SJ, XJ, or GM k5 project truck? Others maybe?

Post by blackeagle603 »

Some of the more extreme rock crawling types are beginning to use 6061 aluminum in thick sections for bumpers and skids. This can save a lot of weight, but it is still very much a niche proposition, and requires a lot more knowledge and specialized equipment. I'm not sure what, if anything, they are doing about the loss of temper in the heat affected zone of their welds. It's possible that they are forming their parts from "0" condition material and then heat treating afterwards, but I kind of doubt that they are. We did a little bit of heat treating aluminum in A&P school, and it is pretty involved, and not exactly a safe process, particularly on a smaller scale.
Tig, more Tig and nothing but Tig and no heat treat as far as I know.

Young man I married last summer (an ME) was doing just that in the family business here locally. All they do is design/build of Aluminum parts for offroad and RV mfg's.
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Netpackrat
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Re: Jeep SJ, XJ, or GM k5 project truck? Others maybe?

Post by Netpackrat »

blackeagle603 wrote:Tig, more Tig and nothing but Tig and no heat treat as far as I know.

Young man I married last summer (an ME) was doing just that in the family business here locally. All they do is design/build of Aluminum parts for offroad and RV mfg's.
There is still a significant loss of temper in the heat affected zone with TIG on aluminum, so I assume he is designing some extra bulk into the joints to make up for the loss of strength. As an ME he should at least be qualified to do so. Many/most of the small shops building bumpers and trail armor commercially have no engineering qualifications whatsoever. That's mostly okay, because they are working in steel, and off-road armor is mostly a known science; they base their work on prior art that has worked, and the majority of customers know what to look for too. I actually just completed a new rear bumper and tire carrier for my Jeep, and most of my design is based on things that are out there already. I'll post an image, but keep in mind that the jerry can carriers are not installed in this picture:
bumper2.jpg
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Aglifter
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Re: Jeep SJ, XJ, or GM k5 project truck? Others maybe?

Post by Aglifter »

I have, limited, experience as a passenger in a Niva... The new ones aren't so good, the old Soviet ones are... Well, they're simple enough to survive Russia and Russian build quality.
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TheIrishman
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Re: Jeep SJ, XJ, or GM k5 project truck? Others maybe?

Post by TheIrishman »

Netpackrat wrote:I have a bit of experience with Troopers (a buddy liked them, and had two of them), and I would NEVER ever recommend that somebody buy one, particularly not as an off road vehicle. They can do it if they have to, but they are prone to break and underpowered in general.
The second gens with the 3.2 have as much power as a v6 4runner of the same vintage. The Isuzu corporate 12 bolt is about equal to a 9" in strength and the front diff/cv joints are stronger than the yota equivalent. The only real concerns are bending a trailing arm or tierod end,but a set of high clearance arms from Stinkylinks and heavy duty tie rods from Indy4x4 fixes that.
Netpackrat wrote:A lot of people are under the misconception that stainless is harder than regular carbon steel, but in reality it is softer, and more difficult to make something of equivalent strength out of for this reason. People think it is harder because it work hardens easily when they try to drill or cut it,
That is my concern. Cutting/welding and drilling to build a bumper that will see loads at all kinds of angles with a winch(unless it's just for show) will work harden and not allow for any stretching at critical points as carbon steel would.
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arctictom
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Re: Jeep SJ, XJ, or GM k5 project truck? Others maybe?

Post by arctictom »

I see the FJ40 didn't make the cut, I have had three, loved them all the last one was my wife's it was red, bright red , with custom bumpers,sound, suspension , etc etc. She was very attached to it , but we eventually just didn't use it much.

Sounds like you have a fun project lined up, good luck.
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blackeagle603
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Re: Jeep SJ, XJ, or GM k5 project truck? Others maybe?

Post by blackeagle603 »

Yeah well, I hear those FJ40's will ruin your gall bladder... :twisted: ;)
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TheIrishman
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Re: Jeep SJ, XJ, or GM k5 project truck? Others maybe?

Post by TheIrishman »

CByrneIV wrote:Honestly, I'd rather work in CrMo DOM and mild plate anyway. It's a fuckton cheaper, and easier to work with.
If I can find a good coatings guy, I could have the stuff nickel plated, or maybe hard chromed. Probably cost me a fortune, but still less than the stainless would.... Bedliner over matte powdercoat,
Like I said there are powdercoats that "LOOK" like chrome. They have been using them on bikes for a while. Best of both worlds, you can build the bumpers and steps however you like and Mel gets her Bling, for a fuckton less than stainless. There has got to be a powdercoater in Idaho.
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arctictom
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Re: Jeep SJ, XJ, or GM k5 project truck? Others maybe?

Post by arctictom »

blackeagle603 wrote:Yeah well, I hear those FJ40's will ruin your gall bladder... :twisted: ;)
Well theirs that, but its a small price to pay
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NVGdude
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Re: Jeep SJ, XJ, or GM k5 project truck? Others maybe?

Post by NVGdude »

If parking or turn radius is an issue get a Bronco, the K5 Blazer won't turn worth a crap.
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