223 vs m16

[survivalist]

One of the purchases I want to make after we return to the states is a .223 or ar clas M16.
I am not much on the black rifles after some of the horror stories my Dad has told me.
What does anyone think of the wimchester .223 as an all around gun?
I have .308 ,30-06 7x57 Mauser 8x57 Mauser several mosins of various size and 6 .22's
I have read the spechs on the 223 and altho I like them unless I can use it to hunt I don't really need it.
Like my Dad I do not shoot paper, only hunt for meat and if I am not going to eat it I don't kill it

Was also looking at a couple of more Mausers in .308 or 30-06.
If you look except for the mosins and .22's everything can be loaded utilizing 30-06 brass ,neck down and resized.
I would appreciate some good feedback to help me make a decision.
Won't need it for 20 months but would like to start planning any way

survivalist

[FelixEstrella]

The 223 *Remington* is a cartridge. The M-16 is a rifle, a select fire one at that. Comparing the two doesn't make sense.

Are you asking to compare a bolt action rifle chambered for the 223 vs. a semi-auto rifle chambered for the 223?

Again, night and day.

What are the "horror stories" your father has told you about black rifles?

[AZMARK]

As an all around gun, the .223 just doesn't make the cut. If you're looking to terrorize coyotes and/or jackrabbits it's perfect. Step up to one of the 6.5/6.8 versions and you have a good start. Step further up to a .260/.308/.338 and now you're talking all around gun.

[Combat Controller]

Depends on what you want to hunt with it. It is too small for deer here in Texas. Coyotes, rabbits, general varmint it is great. Ditto having commonality with the local LEO's. Otherwise, you have a pretty good spread of larger calibers. Never hurts to be versatile though.

As for reliability, we are successfully prosecuting two military actions with the "AR" platform. I carried one through three invasions and it always worked as well. The problems from the 60's were fixed.

[FastRope71]

Sucks to think I just spent $1300 on two rifles that are only good for dropping jackrabbits and coyote's.

Of course, they could be referring to illegal human traffickers and their customers.

As a hunting tool, I have to agree that your other selections are a better choice for the task at hand. The AR platform was designed for a purpose. It was not the harvesting of game. I can think of few reasons to need 20 or 30 rounds of ammunition in your gun while on a hunt.

For defense of family, self and stuff, I think it's an adequate round/platform, but that isn't why you wanted it.

[Combat Controller]

LOL Fastrope. You know I carry one in my trunk! I meant for hunting... The only game between rabbit and deer in size are sheep and pigs....

[SeekHer]

Like was said M16 is an Evil Black Rifle (EBR) and the civilian version is the AR15…The 5.56mm or .223 Rem is a round that is fired from this and many other guns…My question would have been AR15 & .223 Rem as a big game hunting combo? Maybe have made it into a poll with:
1 Good
2 Bad
3 Indifferent

I have three bolt action .223 rifles fitted out to be varmint rifles, one in a sporter class, one in a light varmint BR class and the third is a heavy varmint BR class…All three are tack drivers and have gotten kills on prairie dogs and coyotes to 1,000 yards with them…I use them to shoot at pests and predators which I don’t eat and save the skins of the predators and although I’ve used them on squirrel and rabbit, unfortunately, there isn’t very much left of them after the bullet hits and why would I use an expensive cartridge when a .22 LR will do the job better and cheaper and with far less noise…

Rabbit, possum and squirrel are great to eat and as a kid, armed with a BB gun I would stalk them for the pot…didn’t get many—too weak a charge--but learned a lot about stalking…Mind you I’ve eaten coyote, muskrat, beaver, porcupine when I absolutely had to and on dares and they are edible but not my first choice for dining fare…

I’m like you in the sense if I shoot it I use it or eat it as well but that applies only to game animals and not pests or predators…We guide for trophy hunters and all the left over meat, that isn’t eaten in the mess hall, and a haunch that goes with the hunter, the rest is donated to charity, like “Hunters Feeding The Hungry”…

I have a thing for the M16 by Colt but that is a different matter and from a different time and the improvements done to the AR system is stupendous and after market products available to convert it to a pistol or a target rifle make it a sound investment so long as you’re not thinking about hunting big game with that puny cartridge…In many states and provinces it is illegal to have any .22 cal centerfire or rimfire cartridge in the bush during the big game season…The gun, not the cartridge, was illegal in Canada for any purpose other then target shooting at one time…

Now you can always get a .308 upper for your EBR and you’ll be set for big game hunting—you can even get a .338 Win Mag and a .408 CheyTac (RND) in that platform but not as just uppers or .243 Win and .260 Rem (DPMS) …Phil Shoemaker, the noted Alaskan bear guide, is carrying one chambered in .450 Bushmaster (Bushmaster Arms) as his client protection from great big, angry (just been shot) grizzly bears, gun…

In other caliber larger then 5.56mm/.223 Rem it is a good hunter, albeit a bitch to carry in the bush because it snags on everything, and below as an excellent varmint rifle, low recoil, easy to see where your shot went to correct, low muzzle flip—even less if you install a muzzle brake or Mag-na-porting…Use it for it’s intended purpose on the game you want in the caliber suitable and you’ve got a great gun…

Again,
.17 Rem, .19/223, .204 Ruger, .223 Rem/5.56mm = Varmints only and Sniper/target and 3 Gun competition…
.243 Win, .260 Rem., 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 Rem SPC, .308 Win/7.62mm = Pronghorn, sheep/goats, deer, Sniper/target and 3 Gun competition…
.300 WSM or .300 Win Mag, .325 WSM, .338 Win, Mag, .408 CheyTac = Sniper/target competition and big game…
.450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM = Close in defense and limited hunting…

[carbinero]

At the price point for accurate and reliable AR, I have no qualms about buying and recommending. In 5.56, Noveske makes an excellent N4 Light Recce barrel, which Grant at G&R can build into a fine upper, push pins on an LMT lower, and you're rocking. In 6.8spc, Harrison at ar15performance is at the fore, and will be releasing a killer "Xtreme" upper in early '09. The price point, accuracy, and reliability will be unmatched. Either of those two can be made as a complete rifle right about $1000, and I'd trust either for personal/home defense and hunting deer or smaller. If I had to defend a boat, or hunt griz or moose, I'll pony up to a .308...by that time Magpul or FN should be up and running...but then the price point won't be so friendly.

[Netpackrat]

As for reliability, we are successfully prosecuting two military actions with the "AR" platform. I carried one through three invasions and it always worked as well. The problems from the 60's were fixed.

In the sort of units that you served in, the problems are a thing of the past. It's my understanding that they still raise their head among troops who don't shoot for a living, and therefore aren't as anal about caring for their weapon. A "survivalist" is probably going to be in a similar boat, in that he will have a lot of other things on his mind that need to be attended to, and can only expect to be using his rifle under extreme circumstances. So, perhaps something that is more prone to reliability even when severely neglected would be in order.

[Edited to add: If he's been hearing horror stories about the AR/M-16 from his dad his whole life, he's never going to have confidence in one, no matter how reliable his particular rifle may be. On the basis of that alone, I would recommend something else.]

[Combat Controller]

Too true. As a caliber, like any caliber, it all depends on your application. The platform is another choice entirely.