Buying a used car without killing the Salesman.

[Kommander]

Seeing as how I am about to embark on this great adventure of buying a vehicle for the first time, I was wondering if I could get a bit of guidance in regard to getting a good deal without strangling the salesmen with his own tie. Images of William H. Macy in Fargo are dancing through my head, as are that of a woodchipper. My skills and experience in negotiation are rather limited. If someone has something at a good price I buy it. If I don't like the price then I go somewhere else.

However with buying a car and trading in my old one I am unlikely to get a decent deal if I do that. So I need to figure this out. Just as an example my current car, an 03 S-10, is estimated by kelly blue book to have a trade in value of $5.5-$6K. The vehicle I want, a used Jeep Unlimited Rubicon has a trade in value of about $14-$15K trade. Now lets use this Jeep as an example.

So depending on the condition of the vehicle the dealer is looking at making about 2-3K. Now in this circumstance I would start out with demanding 6K for my trade in (despite the rear tire holder cable being broken and the dent in the hood) and the jeep for 16K out the door. I would then let myself be talked down to 5k (with an attempt to hold at $5.5k) for my S-10 and $16.5 out the door for the jeep.

I would like a way to signal the salesmen I know what I am doing, to not fuck with me, and that I will leave if I do not get the deal I seek. Does this seem like a reasonable way to go about things or am I nuts?

[Cobar]

Well you could always be honest. "I don't haggle. Give me your best deal. I don't like it, I walk." Then hold to it. You probably won't get the first Jeep you want, but once they know that you mean what you say, they should learn to just give you a price.

Of course some salesman would rather lose a sale rather than make a sale that isn't robbery. I used to deal with a lot of car salesmen. Most are just average guys who will get what they can take, some of them treat it like being a professional con man, a profession that they thoroughly enjoy. They will NEVER give you a good deal. They think doing so is like admitting defeat.

[randy]

I'm not an expert, and I hate haggling, but here's what's worked for me in the past:

Actually, it's worked for my wife. I do the research on line and decide what I want, features etc.
She takes list to 2-3 dealers and gets their best offer.

We don't talk about my trade in at this point, only the new vehicle.

She makes it clear that she is only information/bid gathering, that I make the decision and I'm not even stepping on the property until I decide which dealer I'm going with based on the initial offer. That cuts out a lot of the sales tricks by keeping the decision maker/buyer out of their range.

Once I've decided which dealer, I go in and we talk either from stock or order. (My 01 Cherokee was a custom order because I wanted 2WD, suburban southern Ohio has no need for 4wd). Once we settled on price, THEN we discussed the trade in.

Do I get the absolute lowest price on new/highest on trade-in, no. But I've gotten fair prices without the stress of dealing with sales weasels any more than I have to.

I've been criticized by friend for not pushing for every penny, but they're the kind of folks that LIKE doing this wheeler/dealer crap.

Another thought, from my Father-in-law; The sales pukes do this every day, several times a day. You do this once every several years. Who is more likely to play the game better?

Like I said, this works for my family. Hope this helps.

[MelodyByrne]

Take Chris with you. He has much more experience buying vehicles than you do, and he'd be able to help you out.

I'd also recommend going to a car salesman that you know, but Jim's lot doesn't have what you want at the moment (though they do have a whole lot of "you want that little?" Jeeps).

[Precision]

The easiest best answer is don't go to a dealership.

I know, not exactly what you asked, but let me explain.

You have no real NEED to switch vehicles, so take your time and find a vehicle on the internet, in the paper, in a used car trader for sale by an INDIVIDUAL. Then there is no dealer BS, no dealer mark-up, no dealer shell game. This also assumes that you will take it to an honest mechanic for pre-purchase evaluation. Of course this method makes trading yours in more difficult, but you can sell yours the same way or take it to Carmax or equivalent and they will give you a price regardless of if you buy from them or not. I also assume you are going to finance your "new to you" vehicle, so get financing without your trade, then sell your trade and use that money as principle paydown.

If you get a good loan rate (close to what you can earn on it in a money market account). Realize that anything under 5% net is considered "free money". Park the money in a such an account and pay an additional premium payment every month. This keeps ready capital available for the unforeseen and you pay off the loan WAY quicker, usually saving on total interest.

If the rate stinks, make 3-5 lump payments starting on payment 3 and not all in a row. This is better for your credit than doing it as one large lump. I know our credit system is stupid but that is how it works.

the "secret" to buying a new or used car from a dealership is a couple of fold.
Do your research. Bring it with you in writing but leave it in your vehicle until they lie.
Have comps from the other used venues.
Be completely unemotional.
Be completely willing and able to walk away and DO it. Let them chase you across the parking lot. Let them decide if they really want to make a deal. Remember they aren't selling many cars right now.

if you get a jerk for a salesman, ask to speak to the manager and request someone who isn't a jerk. Avoid having the manager be your salesman. They usually are people who swindled their way to the top and will just be a much more polished jerk.

Hope this helps

[SleepTech7777]

Precision has about the 'right ' formula.

Be prepared to walk out SEVERAL times at ANY dealership.

If you don't like the interest rate, or the monthly payments, WALK OUT, or at least START to walk out.

Simply tell them the interest rate AND payments that you are willing to accept, and they will 'supposedly' do their 'best' to accomodate you.

Don't be fooled by this tactic.

They will tell you what you want to hear, then go back to their 'cave' and figure up a sum, rate AND payment well above what you wanted.

Start to walk out AGAIN!!!

Let them make a 'new offer'.

Half-heartedly refuse, but 'seem' to remain slightly interested in the vehicle,,,

Remind him again of them Maximum rate and payment that you are willing to pay. (caveat, keep the rate and pay offer WELL below what you would ACTUALLY be willing to pay for the vehicle!!!)
Remember, they are DESPERATE for a sale nowadays.

They will make yet another 'new' offer.

Kindly thank them for their time and walk toward your current vehicle.

If the salesman follows you out, you can most likely name your price and interest rate for the vehicle you wanted.

If he doesn't follow you, time to move to the next dealer.

I followed that formula, that my dad taught me, and purchased a $29,000 vehicle for $17,000 with a near unheard of interest rate, at the time, of 2.5%.

I "walked"out of that dealership 7 times.

If they "Want" to make the sale, they will, if not, walk away!!!

[Jeffro]

Most here have covered the bases pretty well. I worked in that "industry" for six months, and saw a lot of shite I didn't like. I'm not unhappy about being gone.

First, you need to realize that your trade in value as per Blue Book is gonna be wrong. My dealership used three different sources to search for a value and only one is available to you as a consumer - NADA. One was an auction price reporting service, and the other was a different service for dealers. The auction prices were for cars that did not sell on the lots and went to one of the dealer auctions. Those figures were always significantly lower. Blue Book values were considered way too high by "my" dealership.

When the specialist they use to value your truck sees that dent and finds anything else wrong - and they will, perhaps things you didn't know about, your value goes down even further. Expecting the maximum Blue Book value for your truck is probably going to put you crossways with a dealer right off the bat. The only way you are going to get what you feel is full value for your S10 is to sell it yourself.

The value of the vehicle in the dealer's lot does not follow the book value much, either. If they got it in trade on a deal where the previous owner "rolled over" or took the first offer - then the dealer has a lot more "room" to reduce their price by showing an increase in your trade. Maybe the original trade was for something that was nearly totaled and came out of their body shop - lots of wiggle room there, too. The Jeep you are looking at may have been on the lot for quite a while, and is scheduled to go to auction, so they'll be willing to move it to you to make a bit more than what the auction would probably bring.

Conversely, if the trade was "tight" because someone screwed up and let a car go too cheap, or somebody did get a deal on trade, and the Jeep has just came in - they'll tell you to take a hike, because they'll gamble on someone coming in and making up their "loss" on what they are asking for that vehicle to "help" the previous bad (to them) trade.

While I was there, we had a Jeep that caught a lot of lookers, but it didn't have Dana 44 axles, so it was right out as a choice for the serious Jeep bunch. It ended up going to auction. I would expect that since you are in an area that has a large 4wd community, the dealers are fairly knowledegable about the preferred options and will stand tight on the more suitable off road capable Jeeps.

The last thing - don't get emotionally involved. Remember you are buying a commodity, not a rare image enhancement device. They haven't stopped making Jeeps, and there are lots of them out there. If the deal isn't something you want, walk away. If they are any kind of dealership, someone will call you offering a better deal. It may not be what you want, or they might give it to you. Remember what you are trading in is a commodity, too, to the people who are buying it from you.

Just saw Precision's post - yes, definitely walk away if it isn't what you want. One more thing to consider is that the market is highly violatile right now, and you as a consumer are more in control than in the past.

Edit: Yes to what SleepTech said as well. Be polite but stubborn.

[rightisright]

I've purchased vehicles on eBay. You really have to check out the seller first, though.

The "Blue Book" is often not a great way to gauge a vehicle's value. Go to eBay, search for the vehicle you want, then click "Ended Listings" and see what it sold for... not what it was listed for, but what it went for.

If you do go to a dealer, go toward the very end of the month. They have quotas/incentive goals to meet (even with used cars) and are much easier to haggle with. And do bring someone with you that knows the ropes. Car dealers are lower than whale shit.

[SleepTech7777]

I thought that's what I said.

The vehicle I bought was a '99 Isuzu Vehicross with the Iron Man edition Package.
In 2001. It had 20,000 miles on it. I had scoured the I-net for one and found it, almost locally...
Yes I said 2001!!!. That's when there was NO Economic melt down!!! And I "Jewed"the price down that much JUST buy 'feigning" walking out!

You just don't get MUCH more specific than THAT!!! Considering that there are ONLY about 5,000 of these vehicles in the US(in 2009!!).

[SleepTech7777]

Chris, it may seem like we have conflicting information, but, I think we are trying to say the same thing!!!

Basicly, the dealer, whomever that may be, has his balls in a vice, and you (the buyer) has his hand on the handle( to turn and twist at your pleasure, be careful though,,,).

TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT NOW!!!

After 1-20-09, you'll only have "change" to barter with.