Good HD Gun(s) For Apartment

[skb12172]

OK, let's bring this back on track. I was hoping to find a good apartment defense load. I've got a Mossy 500 and currently, it's loaded with 00 Buck. I'd like to avoid excessive overpenetration, though I realize the danger will remain to some degree, and would also like to minimize my chances of going deaf.

What will it be?

#4 Buck?

BB?

Something else not previously mentioned?

At the moment, I'm leaning towards #4 Buck for home and 00 Buck for outside. If this is the wrong way to go, please steer me back on the path of shotgun righteousness.

[AndytheAxe]

"I would not use handloaded ammo for home defense because of the repeatability issues with gunshot residue being able to be replicated in crime labs and such."

I don't understand what you mean by gsr repeatability issues.

[Combat Controller]

"I would not use handloaded ammo for home defense because of the repeatability issues with gunshot residue being able to be replicated in crime labs and such."

I don't understand what you mean by gsr repeatability issues.

Since GSR tests are not exactly replicable between handloads, they would not be able to conclusively use GSR results to show your firing distance.

I guess it all depends if you see that as a feature, or a bug....

[matthew hopkins]

OK, let's bring this back on track. I was hoping to find a good apartment defense load. I've got a Mossy 500 and currently, it's loaded with 00 Buck. I'd like to avoid excessive overpenetration, though I realize the danger will remain to some degree, and would also like to minimize my chances of going deaf.

What will it be?

#4 Buck?

BB?

Something else not previously mentioned?

At the moment, I'm leaning towards #4 Buck for home and 00 Buck for outside. If this is the wrong way to go, please steer me back on the path of shotgun righteousness.

I think that works. I would not go any lower than BB.

One thing to keep in mind is that the average man can easily punch through two sheets of sheetrock, if not more. So anything that can be stopped by something that an average man can punch through is not going to give you enough penetration to go through heavy clothing and reach a man's vitals, or depending how small it is, maybe not get very deep after having to go through heavy clothing at home defense distances.

Some people will tell you When any shot comes out of the barrel it is in a column and can penetrate deeper. This is true when the shot is leaving the muzzle. But even at home defense ranges when fired from a short barrelled shotgun with a typical improved cylinder bore, the shot will spread out enough so that it is hitting in a spread, albeit a small one, rather than a column. Look at the pictures on the Box of truth. In all cases the shot has spread out so that it is the individual shot impacting not a clump. So you are dealing with the individual penetrating power of the pellets, not the shot moving as a solid clump, so the penetration will be less.

[SeekHer]

Typical spread:
EFFECTIVE PATTERN DIMENSIONS (Express in Inches of Diameter)
YARDAGE……10…..20……25……30…..40
Spreader…….23…….27….44…….51…….66
Cylinder……..20…….32….38…….44…….57
Imp Cyl………15…….26….32…….38…….51
Modified…….12…….20….26…….32…….46
Full…………….09…….16….21…….26…….40


Taken from NRA American Hunter, Oct. 2006 Issue page 92

YARDAGE…..10…..15…..20…..25…..30...35…..40…....45…..50
Full…..........10…..15….. 20…..25….. 30…..35…..40…...45…...50
Mod….........15…..20…...25…..30…...35…..40….45…...50
I/C…..........20…..25…...30…..35…...40…..45…..50
Cyl…...........25…..30…...35…..40…...45…..50

From Beretta Arms

As you can see the differences are slight--it could be caused by the amount or type of powder, size of wad, over powder or over shot cards—if used—their thickness and density, whether there is or isn’t a shot cup, size and density of the shot cup, but most common is the material of the pellets (steel, Tungsten, copper, lead etc)--between the two different reports...

It's 1" to 1 yard on FULL choke not cylinder...

And it don't matter whether you use buck or bird the expansion will be about the same...although larger pellets will spread farther then smaller ones...Fire a load of #6, #BB, #4 and #00 buck from the same place and the buck will be wider then the #6 but not by that much of a difference...

When the spread becomes to open it will allow a clay target or a live bird to fly through unscathed...

Remember how to measure the circumference of a circle - Π(R²) so a 12" spread is a 113.10” area and a 30” circle equals 706.85” that has to be filled with the most amount of pellets so that the target is hit sufficient times to destroy it…
Π = 3.14159265

There is a high speed photo of a shot string in air that was nearly 48" (4') in length, that's right four feet but I can't remember the distance it was from the muzzle. IIRC it was around 40 yards down range and was of #6 or #4 shot...

That's why the best analogy to describe shot string is a garden hose and the curved stream you can produce with moving it to the side...

Mass & Velocity = Energy
Energy = Depth of Penetrations and Shock

A CHOKES EFFECTIVE RANGE (Expressed in yards)
…………………….…IDEAL……....EFFECTIVE
CHOKE………....RANGE…........RANGE
Cylinder……….....15-22.........10-27
Skeet 1………….…20-27.........15-32
Imp Cylinder…...25-32.........20-37
Skeet 2…………...30-37.........25-42
Modified…………..35-42.........30-47
Imp Modified.....40-47.........35-52
Full…………..………45-52.........40-57
Extra Full………...50-57.........45–62

[Precision]

OK, let's bring this back on track. I was hoping to find a good apartment defense load. I've got a Mossy 500 and currently, it's loaded with 00 Buck. I'd like to avoid excessive overpenetration, though I realize the danger will remain to some degree, and would also like to minimize my chances of going deaf.

What will it be?

#4 Buck?

BB?

Something else not previously mentioned?

At the moment, I'm leaning towards #4 Buck for home and 00 Buck for outside. If this is the wrong way to go, please steer me back on the path of shotgun righteousness.

Just using a shotgun gets you half way to shotgun righteousness.

After that, personal tests on gelatine, water jugs, wet newspaper or whatever is really the only way to get the answer you want.

I have done some testing water filled milk jugs and #4 Buckshot is perfectly fine for me at indoor distances 3-10 yds from my 18" unchoked barrel. At 10 yds the spread is getting pretty big but who ever is getting shot is still dealing with "major suck". Much beyond 15 yds I would want OO Buck or a slug or a different firearm. Which reminds me, I need to get one of those shot shell holders for my gun so I can have choices beyond what is in the tube.

[matthew hopkins]

I think you really need to test the shotgun that you are planning to use with the ammo that you are considering at various distances. In doing this, I have found that the shot often doesn't pattern quite like it is supposed to or follow typical rules of thumb.

For example I like the various tactical buckshot loads from made by Federal, which have noticably less recoil and muzzle jump, as well as Remington's low recoil buckshot. I find these much more managable than standard loads. However, these loads use a special wad and such to make the shot spread less to allow it to be usable over longer ranges. However, this means that it has less spread at close ranges like home defense distances, where you really want more spread.

[BobTheWitch]

How big an apartment are we talking about here?

Typically inside an apartment the engagement range is not going to be over 5 yards.

At these distances shot hasn't spread all that much.

Less than a foot circle certainly. Probably around 5-7 inches. So spread inside an apartment probably isn't relevant. Deferring to those with more time at the range on details. I'd be tempted to go with Number four Buck, for a combination of reliable Structure damaging (Body structure) penetration with decent retention in the target (unlikely to overpenetrate in a fashion that poses a life hazard outside the apartment.

My $.03 (Inflation you know)

[Fender Ketchup]

One thing I've been thinking of(not too seriously) with the purchase of my new GSG-5 Carbine is, what about 20 CCI Minimag's for HD? My Mom's door is down the hall from mine, right past the stairs, and her bed is on the other side of the room, but still in line with the hall. My HD load currently is a Saiga 12 with a mag of 4 Super-X 3" 00 shells, but I know those would penetrate the walls/door. My GSG holds 23, so assuming 20 to down-load it, how would this go?

I was gonna start a new thread about this, but... my upstairs is almost an apartment with stuff I don't want to accidentally shoot right behind what I would need to shoot.