Should Norms of Social Behavior be Enforced?

[Fivetoes]

I'd have gotten out my cell phone, and 411ed the State Restaurant Health Inspector in a very not-shy tone of voice.

Ah, yes. The threat of someone else's authority.

Would have been fun to walk up to the couple, request ID, and claim you are from "Family welfare" services. (they can't arrest you if you don't use a real organization)

There was an occasion when I wanted to get some scuz away from the theater where I was watching a movie and I informed him

"I'm not on duty now and can't arrest you, but can ask for your ID, or maybe you would like to just move along".

He walked away.

[Greg]

I'd have gotten out my cell phone, and 411ed the State Restaurant Health Inspector in a very not-shy tone of voice.

Ah, yes. The threat of someone else's authority.

Would have been fun to walk up to the couple, request ID, and claim you are from "Family welfare" services. (they can't arrest you if you don't use a real organization)

Aw crap. I find myself agreeing with Yogi. This is a good distance along the slide down to "papers, please".

[MarkD]

I'd have gotten out my cell phone, and 411ed the State Restaurant Health Inspector in a very not-shy tone of voice.

Ah, yes. The threat of someone else's authority.

Would have been fun to walk up to the couple, request ID, and claim you are from "Family welfare" services. (they can't arrest you if you don't use a real organization)

Aw crap. I find myself agreeing with Yogi. This is a good distance along the slide down to "papers, please".

Not really, IMHO. Having a kid taking a shit at the table of a restaurant MUST violate even the most minimalist health codes. I wouldnt want it happening anyplace i was eating, and such regulations are one of the uses of local government. IANAL, YMMV, etc.

[MelodyByrne]

Speaking as a parent, this is definitely a situation for social pressure, castigation, etc. All of which this woman has evidently never encountered.

Definitely talk to management first. If that doesn't work, escalate i.e. we'll never eat here again, tell all of our friends and neighbors, etc. Definitely make it loud and public. Do whatever is necessary to make it clear the fallout from not doing something is far worse than dealing with the mother.

As for dealing with the culture that makes it possible for this to happen... I don't have any answers for that particular issue.

[Yogimus]

Speaking as a parent, this is definitely a situation for social pressure, castigation, etc. All of which this woman has evidently never encountered.

Definitely talk to management first. If that doesn't work, escalate i.e. we'll never eat here again, tell all of our friends and neighbors, etc. Definitely make it loud and public. Do whatever is necessary to make it clear the fallout from not doing something is far worse than dealing with the mother.

As for dealing with the culture that makes it possible for this to happen... I don't have any answers for that particular issue.

My no bullshit reaction:

"Hey, look everyone, this kid is taking a SHIT at the table!" (stand and point) Public shame is glorious.

[cu74]

"Hey, look everyone, this kid is taking a SHIT at the table!" (stand and point) Public shame is glorious.

Sadly, public shame no longer works for the type of people noted here. Remember when being on welfare was a stigma instead of a "right'? As my wife and I often comment to each other, "There are a lot of folks out there who aren't like we are...".

[Jericho941]

"Hey, look everyone, this kid is taking a SHIT at the table!" (stand and point) Public shame is glorious.

Sadly, public shame no longer works for the type of people noted here. Remember when being on welfare was a stigma instead of a "right'? As my wife and I often comment to each other, "There are a lot of folks out there who aren't like we are...".

Hmm... unless you've run into this problem in real life, I'm skeptical.

I mean... even given the best interpretation of these circumstances (the parents bought into some truly awful advice) it's not terrible hard to correct them.

As I've said in the past, there's a wide spectrum of options between "do nothing" and "start shooting people," and unfortunately, a lot of methods of "enforcing social norms" falls in the latter category.

Most people are completely ill-prepared for parenting, even if they're otherwise good people. Until you try talking to them, you never know what the result might be. It could be a defensive "fuck you, I'll do what I want" or it could be a "My God, I've never thought of it that way."

Don't forget that we're a species that relies heavily on data transmission, and garbage in = garbage out. You never know what supplying non-garbage may accomplish, e.g. "Excuse me, why are you training you children to shit where they eat?"

[Yogimus]

"Hey, look everyone, this kid is taking a SHIT at the table!" (stand and point) Public shame is glorious.

Sadly, public shame no longer works for the type of people noted here. Remember when being on welfare was a stigma instead of a "right'? As my wife and I often comment to each other, "There are a lot of folks out there who aren't like we are...".

Hmm... unless you've run into this problem in real life, I'm skeptical.

I mean... even given the best interpretation of these circumstances (the parents bought into some truly awful advice) it's not terrible hard to correct them.

As I've said in the past, there's a wide spectrum of options between "do nothing" and "start shooting people," and unfortunately, a lot of methods of "enforcing social norms" falls in the latter category.

Most people are completely ill-prepared for parenting, even if they're otherwise good people. Until you try talking to them, you never know what the result might be. It could be a defensive "fuck you, I'll do what I want" or it could be a "My God, I've never thought of it that way."

Don't forget that we're a species that relies heavily on data transmission, and garbage in = garbage out. You never know what supplying non-garbage may accomplish, e.g. "Excuse me, why are you training you children to shit where they eat?"

I have actually been known to speak loudly for the purposes to cause embarrassment. last time was when a 4 year old toddler was running amok in a movie theater. (there were like 12 people there, it was at 10pm, and the movie was rated R)

I said, as loudly as I could, "The next time that sexy little piece of ass runs by here, lets grab him!" Kid never left his seat after that.