"Ansitz" hunting - your advice...?

[SeekHer]

Still hunting shoots, you in a stand, are done at dawn and dusk and the method we’ve use is at the next shoot everyone moves over one station to the right so you should get to be in the best spot…This method you’re allowing the animal to come to you on their own accord…

The positions are drawn from a cup, using silver toothpick style rods, and you then get placed there...some locations are always better then the others and the aristocracy can up with this method at driven bird shoots but of course this couldn't be done to the king...

What you’re going on is a different matter…The way it was described to me is that it's a driven hunt...you take position/stand, the beaters beat and the walkers walk and beat, forcing the game towards the hunters who then proceed to shoot at as many animals as they can and let the Foresters find the dead and dying in the bush... Beating bush does not have to concerned about the sleep/eat patterns of animals as they are disrupting them purposely to scare them into moving, hopefully, into your position…

I'm only against the “many bodies as they can shoot concept” but that method is how we do a family meat deer hunt here on the farm but we’ll use two or three extra bullets on an animal to assure the kill...Those driving, after having reached your position will be transported to another spot and “push” that section of bush towards you so you should get two maybe even three tries per station…While the beaters are moved is when you would have your coffee and toilet break…

As was said to me by a Bavarian hunting client in his halting English, "Me shoot, no kill, you find und kaput." Puts the onus on the guide to complete...I should point out that the Europeans are probably better “game shots” then anyone I’ve ever guided and hunted with—remember they all MUST take a hunting course and pass it by usually shooting at a running deer/boar target and have to put 2 of 3 or 3 of 5 in the vitals at 100M…The worst shots I’ve ever seen are the Japanese but are very dedicated in the pursuit of the animal—usually wounded …Koreans, because of mandatory military service, are a little better and South Americans (Argentina, Venezuela and Columbia are the only ones I’ve had contact with) better yet…

Denis, pay attention to the Forester and what he says, as he’ll have the best knowledge on the local conditions and listen to his shooting instructions as they have probably shot more game or been at the scene while others shot, so his descriptions will be quite explicit and are to learn from…Having never shot Fallow deer and wild boar only twice, anything I can give is only on my observations of the game animals I’ve seen shot…As pointed out, boar hunting in the US, or Israel in my case, is quite different then what is done in the Germanic countries (Is that sub alpine?) from procedures to type of animals found…I just finished reading an article on a Czech hunt, where they stalked the animals instead of driven, and the author took a 600 KG female with 12cm & 15cm tusks…

Oh, just remembered, do not wear a good shirt to the hunt…wear a used, cheap, not afraid to get dirt shirt…One tradition, which I’ve witnessed first hand many times, is the guide or hunting partner(s) will stick his hands into the animal’s blood and wipe them on the front of your shirt and then will pull your shirt out of your pants and hack off the tail—which you roll up and wear around your head as a do-rag or a hat band or as a scarf, depending on how much is cut off…

As I said, we’ll switch stands and eventually we will all get to “push bush” as well at our hunts (Age and physical conditions excluded)…Over a long weekend you can be in six to ten different locations…Those in the push will usually carry their rifles for the occasional deer slipping off in another direction or for some slow ones getting up…We normally all get a deer but if we don’t then everything that is shot is divided up—the shooter of that deer will get choice cut and no one goes home empty handed…Worst weekend we had with fifteen people was nine deer which was a little better the half a deer per person…

We only do this during the blackpowder and regular rifle shoot but others I know have also done it during archery season as well but I have enough trouble hitting a standing deer with a bow let alone a fast walking one and forget about any that are running—most of them…It’s still too early in the season and they haven’t gotten their caution sense working yet…Now they run, later they slink away!

Check out Drilling Hotline for the Krieghoff Thermo TS Stabil - Full Wood Stock steingass drilling that I’d lust for…Shown, it has the left barrel rifle insert...

[Denis]

Thanks, SeekHer!

First, that Krieghoff is lovely....

Your descriptions of the Ansitz are about what I expect. I just tried (unsuccessfully) to get the Forester, to ask if the game will be driven. I think it probably will be, as the idea is to effect an overall cull, rather than just to see what ambles by.

The Germans practice both "loud" and "silent" versions of driving. The silent version involves no dogs, and the beaters/drivers walk line-abreast, quietly, without beating with sticks or hurrying the game. The idea is to make the game move just as it would if disturbed by a mountain-biker or jogger in the woods, rather then fleeing in panic, as if pursued by a hound. The advantage is that the game moves slowly, so it's easier for the shooters to hit, and the meat also doesn't have the "gamey" taste of lactic acid and adrenaline that a fleeing animal has.

Thanks for the warning about the shirt - I'd heard of new hunters being "blooded", but not of being undressed!

My search of the ammunition locker yesterday disclosed a 20-box of Winchester X 180grn soft-point rounds, plus a box of Sierra Game King 150grain bullets and a box of almost identical Sellier & Bellot softpoints. Strangely, I don't have a set of .308Win dies, so I'll be hitting the local gunshops over the weekend...

What do you think of the idea of a Docter red-dot sight on a magnetic mount on my 7x65R breakbarrel? My friend the gunsmith suggested it, as it can be done without drilling and tapping...

ETA: I forgot to mention the division of work between hunters and guides/profesionals over here: we got it drilled into us at the hunter's licence courses that tracking a wounded animal is the personal responsibility of the shooter who wounded it. Finding and marking the "Anschuss" and marking the first 50 metres of any blood trail should eb done straight away when the drive ends. If the animal can't be found and a blood-hound team is called in to conduct a search, the shooter is expected to go along, and to do as the dog-handler tells him, even if that means coming back on the morning after the hunt to accompany the hounds. It's customary to cover the dog-handler's out-of-pocket expenses and to offer a gratuity.

[SeekHer]

Thanks for the warning about the shirt - I'd heard of new hunters being "blooded", but not of being undressed!

What do you think of the idea of a Docter red-dot sight on a magnetic mount on my 7x65R breakbarrel? My friend the gunsmith suggested it, as it can be done without drilling and tapping...

Why not just take that combo and be done with it...lots of ammo choices available and if it is driven you'll need field of view more then anything--why I recommended the 1.1x or 1.5x scopes...If you want take the K31 with the variable as a back up or the .308 with the 6x or pull the variable from the 6.5 and mount it on the .308 or the 6.5 or the K31...

Use your break action as the primary and your bolt (whichever) as your backup...The caliber certainly has proven itself on the driven game for decades past and is probably the better choice, actually it is, over the .308…Unless you’re going to be getting just giant horkers of wild boars where a 9.3mm might not damage them the 7x65R is fine…

This is a yearly occurrence so the sizes “shouldn’t” be too, too large…Hopefully…I mean you want a nice 200 to 250 KG animal not some 900 KG monster although that would certainly be exciting…Thing is, I’ve eaten oversize animals of various species in the past and I’ve found they usually don’t taste anywhere near as good as a typical representation of the species…What’s tastier a 20 yr old bull or a milk fed veal? Depends on whether your hunting for meat or just trophy (as long as you donate the meat somewhere)…

Oh, and it's only the shirt tail they slice off, not the whole shirt...If you go back the next year you'll be expected to be wearing it!

[Denis]

Thanks!

The domestic boss wants some furniture bought from Ikea and assembled (DVDs spilling over onto the floor...).

After that's done, I can think about and organise gunny stuff for the rest of the weekend. I'll run down the various possibilities. The 7x65 is sounding good, as I have plenty of ammunition for that, but I'd have to see if friend-gunsmith can get and mount the sight in time, and I should also check from a rest at what distance the barrels actually converge (should be 70 metres, IIRC).

Happy days!

[Denis]

Did you do any fly-fishing in NZ?

Sorry, Ag, I forgot to respond to this...

No, I'm not much of an angler (I used to catch mackerel in the Irish Sea on holidays as a kid, but that's about it...). However, if I were going to become a fisherman, I'd want to do it in New Zealand - every little town had a couple of hunting/fishing/outdoors stores.

It seems that, if they're not hunting, the Kiwis are fishing: trout in the streams and lakes (Lake Taupo is the trout capital - we caught one on a trolling lure while out sailing, but it was too little, so we put it back...) plus seawater fishing all along the coast. Practically everyone has a little trailer with an outboard-powered fishing boat, and there are launching slips all over the place. Here's a photo of one of the catch-limit boards alongside a slip.

[Aglifter]

One of my friends went there last year, said the fishing was incredible -- he was fishing for trout in some glacier fed stream that ran through a tropical forest -- ice cold water, and tropical insect life makes for very happy trout, apparently...

You're barrels shouldn't "converge", should they?

[Denis]

One of my friends went there last year, said the fishing was incredible -- he was fishing for trout in some glacier fed stream that ran through a tropical forest -- ice cold water, and tropical insect life makes for very happy trout, apparently...

Indeed. We saw some monsters. We visited a freshwater prawn farm (heated by volcanic vents). In the river alongside, there were massive specimens of both brown and rainbow trout - and crystal-clear water. The trout were loitering for fish-pellets.

You're barrels shouldn't "converge", should they?

These ones should. On this particular express rifle (GGP follows when I get a round tuit), the barrels are fitted by the factory such that each will hit the same spot 80 metres (I looked it up) from the muzzle when fired consecutively using appropriate ammunition (150-grain softpoints). The convergence is adjusted by moving a wedge soft-soldered between the two muzzles. IIRC, properly-regulated double-barreled shotguns should have a convergence point too, but it would be much closer than 80m.