More spelling & grammar errors these days?

[randy]

in the real world it doesn't really matter for shit when people understand your content and writing.

It's about the message. In the SIGINT world we refer to message externals, things you can tell from a message even if you can't read the text.

The externals of a poorly written and edited professional document (such as a resume, job application, instructional manual, etc) tell me you don't give a shit about the product, are too stupid to know you should be ashamed to produce such a product, too lazy to get someone to proofread and edit it, or you don't think I'm worth your time to put an effort into doing it right.

If I'm hiring, or thinking about buying from you, and you're sending me one of those messages, you're likely down the list a ways.

If you look at Chris' writing there are many times where I have seen spelling mstakes and grammatical errors

Chris is not being paid for what he posts here or on his blog, which are casual conversations. I gauran-damn-tee you that he doesn't let his professional work related documents go out without proofing and correction as needed.

When we are talking about news organizations, book publishers (technical or recreational) and anyone else we pay (either directly or through ad support) for content, IT'S THEIR GOD DAMNED JOB TO GET IT RIGHT! An occasional one going through is understandable, but the routine way it comes up daily is telling me one of those message externals is in play.

And if one of those externals is in play, the credibility of your actual content (message internals) is zero.

[Jered]

In reality no one cares about active voice vs passive voice

Actually I do. Probably because it was beaten into of me during Effective Writing courses during ROTC and Squadron Officer School.

Passive voice is often a rhetorical dodge used by those trying to evade responsibility for their actions, thoughts, or words. It's the language of scum bag gutless politicians and bureaucrats. It's part of our precious snowflake society where every answer is correct if we "feel" it is and no one ever has to take blame for anything because "they" (i.e. Somdood) did it.

In my perfect world any public servant using the formulation of "mistakes were made" would be strung up by their wrists and ride the lightning from a field telephone until they tell me What was the mistake, Who made the mistake, and What have you done to correct it (up to and including ending the career of the miscreant if justified).

For a first offense.

Anytime some one subordinate to me gives me a report, web page input, letter, etc. I will terminate with extreme prejudice any passively voiced phrases and have them re-do it until they get it right.

How about the George Zimmerman affidavit? They indicted him for second degree murder based on, "a struggle ensued."

[bubblewhip]

Chris is not being paid for what he posts here or on his blog, which are casual conversations. I gauran-damn-tee you that he doesn't let his professional work related documents go out without proofing and correction as needed.

When we are talking about news organizations, book publishers (technical or recreational) and anyone else we pay (either directly or through ad support) for content, IT'S THEIR GOD DAMNED JOB TO GET IT RIGHT! An occasional one going through is understandable, but the routine way it comes up daily is telling me one of those message externals is in play.

And if one of those externals is in play, the credibility of your actual content (message internals) is zero.

I don't know if you've been to Gawker Media network, or every single video game media website, or The Huffington Post, they're pretty bad, and no one cares. Because ultimately people just want content content content.

Business and resumes are different because we're not actually caring about the content of information being passed across. That's pretty obvious, what we're looking for is the intent and "seriousness" of an employee working here, and having grammatical mistakes is an indication that an employee is really not all that serious about working here. The same goes for other documents being submitted such as financial statements and earnings. In reality grammatical correctness has the same role as the nice suit and tie vs the jeans and silk screened t-shirt.

[JustinR]

Several of my friends in high school graduated without being able to read, write, or do arithmetic at a 12th grade level. The system utterly failed to teach them, it simply let them slide by. In the 13 years since (has it been that long already?) it's obvious their ability to make a better life for themselves through higher education or the workforce has been crippled as a result.

I thank my lucky stars that I had parents that gave a damn and did things like sitting and reading the Sunday comics with me from before I can remember, and telling me they'd buy me every book I wanted to read. As a result I was reading through Tom Clancy novels in a couple of days in junior high. I think I need to go thank them again after I'm done with this.

When I volunteered to be an unpaid civilian intern for the 92nd Air Refueling Wing flight safety office at Fairchild AFB back in college, I typed up a proposal to develop an Access database with a web based front end for use by aircrew, flight safety personnel, and commanding officers to search and submit incident reports involving wing aircraft. It took me an hour or two, and I printed off a copy for the Major I was working under. He read it, turned to me and asked "did you just write this today?" I was a bit taken aback, and gave him a funny look as I answered in the affirmative. He laughed, had a couple of minor tweaks for me, and then sent it to his CO. On the recommendation letter he eventually wrote for me, he said my writing ability was well above what he expected from a junior officer, let alone an office intern. My thought upon reading the letter was "well crap, I really appreciate the compliment, but what does that say about the junior officers he deals with???"

[JustinR]

Oh, and I know my spelling sucks, I use too many commas, and like to use sentences that would have left my technical writing teacher aghast. But like Randy said, casual forum posts aren't the same as business communications.

[randy]

I don't know if you've been to Gawker Media network, or every single video game media website, or The Huffington Post, they're pretty bad, and no one cares. Because ultimately people just want content content content.

Nope, and given that recommendation, I doubt I ever will. Life is too short to spend with illiterate morons.

And I'm not surprised. After all, Obama got elected so we know there are large numbers of idiots out there that don't give a shit about quality or doing things properly.

Business and resumes are different because we're not actually caring about the content of information being passed across.

Maybe where you've worked. Anytime I've been involved in that process the externals were just the first filter. We do a lot of checking to see if the content was accurate, and, during interviews, that their demonstrated knowledge matched what they wrote they had.

In reality grammatical correctness has the same role as the nice suit and tie vs the jeans and silk screened t-shirt.

Up to a point. Again, it's the first filter. Whether the suit has anything useful in it is the next phase of evaluation. But, again, we've proven in this country that being an empty suit is no barrier to becoming president.

[randy]

but what does that say about the junior officers he deals with???"

That they haven't been through Squadron Officer's School yet?

At any rate, part of his job is ensuring that JOs learn to write effectively. Often by constant rejection. A Major I worked for had a stamp he liked to use: "BULLSHIT! DISAPPROVED! Resubmit within 90 days for Final Disapproval".

He especially liked to use it on Leave Request forms, so we always made out 2 copies prior to submitting one.

[toad]

I having heck recently because since I went over to Linux Mint 14 I can't get the spell check to work here.

[Rod]

Try being a teacher in high school sometime. I quit trying to correct grammar and spelling because I didn't have enough time in the day to do it. If I could understand them and they wrote an answer that was correct, I gave them a grade.
This actually is because of two things. First, schools don't give old fashioned spelling tests any more, they don't diagram sentences, and the teachers don't hold the students accountable at the lower grades any more. They also don't teach penmanship because "everyone" uses computers. Second, the yoot of America spend more time texting "R U there?" and other such garbage. When I was in the Army, I often wrote reports for my officers because I was a better writer than they and my writing actually made sense.

For us old farts, the English teachers were evil for the amount of work they put upon us. Math teacher were worse. If you got out of elementary school without learning your addition, subraction, and multiplication tables to at least the 12s, someone messed up. I usually double check the bill at restaurants, I can approximate the 8.25% sales tax on most items, and I can make exact change (which always surprises clerks for some reason) when I have change in my pocket.

[Jered]

For us old farts, the English teachers were evil for the amount of work they put upon us. Math teacher were worse. If you got out of elementary school without learning your addition, subraction, and multiplication tables to at least the 12s, someone messed up. I usually double check the bill at restaurants, I can approximate the 8.25% sales tax on most items, and I can make exact change (which always surprises clerks for some reason) when I have change in my pocket.

I'm a child of the 80's, but that's how it was when I went to school.