Holland & Holland

[HTRN]

They have a gunroom in Manhattan, where they probably have "try" guns(adjustable 8 ways to Sunday). They adjust the try gun to fit you, take measurements, and then send the measurements to England.

Something similar is done with some Hong Kong Tailors. - They send a guy around the US to take measurements, and for the customer to select material, then all data is sent back. They then mail you your clothing, after payment has cleared.

[D5CAV]

Talk to Tony Galazan at Connecticut Shotgun http://www.connecticutshotgun.com

He will make you a Holland&Holland clone for about 10% to 20% of the price. As HTRN said, you can easily spend the cost of a used car on a premium piece of raw wood, which will cost you another 10% - hence the 2x spread.

I've seen both. Tony's guns are about 98% of a H&H shotgun. As with most things in life, that last 2% of quality will cost you 9x more.

For the mere task of killing birds, my Winchester Model 12 works fine.

For the few times I'm invited to a bird shoot where the guys with gold Rolex watches have H&H or Purdy shotguns and the wannabes have Connecticut shotguns, I have an old AyA that looks OK from a distance.

As HTRN said, they are good guns that can be had for reasonable price. Mine was less than $2k used.

[HTRN]

I'm a firm believer in "bang for your buck"
I can't afford to buy a new Holland and Holland, but when I can 90% of the gun, for 10% of the price..

I'm of the opinion that everyone should own a really nice shotgun, a really nice rifle, and a really nice handgun...
Life is too short to own and use crap.
Winchester Model 12s
AyA and Arrietta, along with the rest of the fine Spanish shotgun makers.
Nice, lower grade Parkers

Pre 64 Winchester Model 70s, especially the H&Hs.
Remington model 72x
Coopers, Dakota, and the rest, if you can find a "cheap" one.

Nice S&Ws, that have been gone over by a smith who knows what he's doing. Makes the Python look like third rate junk.
1911s from the better manufacturers, or ones gone over by somebody who knows what he's doing.

[Vonz90]

Then there's the wood, which is all hand carved, which probably cost 5 grand just for the chunk of walnut before they take a chisel to it. then there's there's the engravers, and checkerers, which then reall eats up the man hours.

And thus why I will never own such a thing. Aesthetically, I despise all the engraving and whatnot. To me, it makes a classic rifle/shotgun look like pimp toy to me no matter how much skill goes into making it that way.

When I think of a classic rifle I would like to have, I think like an Alpine style Mauser with a Mannlicher stock and a hump back butt-stock. Now that is a gorgeous piece of boom stick.

I have no desire for an H&H no matter the price or my ability to pay.

[Greg]

Then there's the wood, which is all hand carved, which probably cost 5 grand just for the chunk of walnut before they take a chisel to it. then there's there's the engravers, and checkerers, which then reall eats up the man hours.

And thus why I will never own such a thing. Aesthetically, I despise all the engraving and whatnot. To me, it makes a classic rifle/shotgun look like pimp toy to me no matter how much skill goes into making it that way.

Careful, when I said pretty much the same thing about engraved and such guns in an old 'bbq gun' thread I got a lot of grief.
But I'm with you.

[toad]

For some reason the thought of an engraved pistol got me to thinking about my intro to "Hammer's Slammers" in the magazine "Analog."
They had an illustration of Joachim Steuben and his engraved "power" pistol. It made me think that a "pretty" engraved weapon can kill you just as dead as a mil-spec. It depends more on the gunner than the gun.

I actually don't have a Dremel....I've got a nasty old Black and Decker with a cord, it is cheaper than a Dremel in price.

[First Shirt]

Searcy makes some nice doubles, apparently, and the prices, while high, don't reach the stratospheric realms commanded by H&H.

If I hit the lottery, they'll get some of my winnings, I'm sure.

[HTRN]

Searcy's now discontinued PH line of Double rifles were widely touted as being the best choice for a "working" double. Sparse engraving, and a stainless reciever(IIRC). They could be had in 470 nitro for around 11 grand..

When the cheap Italian doubles started showing up, Searcy discontinued the PH line, citing trying to compete with an inferior product that cost half as much.

<EDIT> Apparently Butch brought them back. Current Price is $15.5K

[toad]

.470 Nitro squirrel gun, just shoot the tree and watch the squirrels drop our from the shock wave.
I wonder if solids would penetrate an armored Mercedes?

[Yogimus]

I have it on good authority that a 30 caliber steel spike embedded in a 40 caliber copper slug has some amazing penetrating abilities.