On my nerves: Banning Shark Fin Soup

[Jericho941]

The cruelty of the act in question aside, there's a reason why the rest of the world is well within its rights to tell China to knock that shit off.

It has a direct, measurable effect on the rest of the world.

The same arguments you're making in defense of this tiny aspect of Chinese culture can be applied to virtually anything that other countries do that we find distasteful, and oddly, with more validity. When a rape victim is stoned in the middle East, the rest of the world decries it as savage barbarism. But it doesn't effect the rest of the world. Are we wrong to tell them to stop?

Or, to use a more directly comparable situation: We can talk about the extinction of the Yangtze River dolphins until we're blue in the face; it's an entirely domestic issue for the PRC and entirely their own resource to squander. Many tried to get the PRC to stop ruining the river. Were those people wrong?

In the ocean, though? Environmental concerns like over-fishing of any kind can often effect everyone, especially since so many different species have incredibly vast migration routes. Depleting apex predators for what amounts to little more than a novelty dish is, at best, grossly irresponsible.

It's especially galling when this sort of thing happens because somebody realized they could make a quick buck by telling a bunch of rich old men that a single part of a certain animal can make them feel like a horny teenager again.

[bubblewhip]

Thanks for all of your various points of view but I guess personally I'm not feeling I'm being clear enough on a few things.

1st: I actually personally don't mind Gordan Ramsey most of the time. I don't like how American Media decided to make everything look really fake and staged to make him a TV personality. Most of the early stuff he did on BBC I think is a bit more representative of him. At the end of the day I respect him in the way that he is a 3 Michelin star chef and has competent cooking and restauranteur experience. (Although very poor knowledge of knife sharpening)

2nd: I understand that the fining process is cruel, that there are concerns of the shark population. That I all understand. My point more comes generally from people who are lobbying and in my interpretation "destroying a culture" to satisfy their own cultural standards.

I guess what really gets my auir in the second point is that people are pointing at Shark Fins as the culinary scapegoat while happily defending and enjoying Foie Gras, or Sturgeon Caviar. Cruelty with regards to how brutal Shark Finning is doesn't enter into this, it's all a matter of opinion and there is no demonstrable way to look at one method being more "moral." At the end of the day these creatures ultimately die. Is force feeding more moral? Is over crowding fish farms feeding them stuff they would never eat be more moral? It's all relative.

The ecology argument I can get, but Shark species are not tracked very well and there are many sharks that are plentiful in volume. We do know that there are species of Bluefin Tuna and Sturgeon that are borderline on being extinct however I perceive that there isn't a huge noise about that either, even though they are CLEARLY in very big danger of becoming extinct.

I honestly have to say I can't trust myself on this topic, and I wonder if it's something I have genetically that makes me jump up and automatically defend this, because I don't care that much about China and Chinese culture.

[Netpackrat]

On the one hand, I'm pretty sure I don't care about shark fin soup or finning either way. But since they both appear to piss off the envirotards, I am inclined to support both.

[Steamforger]

At this point I have to believe you're just trolling.

[bubblewhip]

At this point I have to believe you're just trolling.

Well you'd be wrong then, because It's not absurd for someone to be defending a custom and tradition that has lasted almost 1000 years.

[Jericho941]

2nd: I understand that the fining process is cruel, that there are concerns of the shark population. That I all understand. My point more comes generally from people who are lobbying and in my interpretation "destroying a culture" to satisfy their own cultural standards.

Look. This isn't something like "Haha, it's a terrible insult to show the soles of your feet over there! How fucking stupid, am I right fellas?" This is, "HOLY FUCK THE JELLYFISH ARE FUCKING EVERYTHING UP BECAUSE THE CHINESE ARE BEING DICKS TO SHARKS HELP HELP AAAUUUGH- x_X"

I guess what really gets my auir in the second point is that people are pointing at Shark Fins as the culinary scapegoat while happily defending and enjoying Foie Gras, or Sturgeon Caviar. Cruelty with regards to how brutal Shark Finning is doesn't enter into this, it's all a matter of opinion and there is no demonstrable way to look at one method being more "moral." At the end of the day these creatures ultimately die. Is force feeding more moral? Is over crowding fish farms feeding them stuff they would never eat be more moral? It's all relative.

It ceases to become relative when your proclivities impact someone else.

Even if you ignore every point about how the cruelty in other cases can be mitigated when it can't with finning, it absolutely ceases to be subjective when you consider the detrimental impact the practice has on other human beings.

Simple as.

You're expecting "but other people are mean to animals too!" to carry your argument for you, and it won't. It can't.

The ecology argument I can get, but Shark species are not tracked very well and there are many sharks that are plentiful in volume. We do know that there are species of Bluefin Tuna and Sturgeon that are borderline on being extinct however I perceive that there isn't a huge noise about that either, even though they are CLEARLY in very big danger of becoming extinct.

One species being closer to extinction doesn't make it okay to push another species closer to it, especially when one's absence is already fucking everything up.

I honestly have to say I can't trust myself on this topic, and I wonder if it's something I have genetically that makes me jump up and automatically defend this, because I don't care that much about China and Chinese culture.

It's not genetic. Not really. To some degree you've invested a part of your ego, your concept of identity, into being Chinese. Which means that sensibly telling a country that has little to no relation to you to fuck off with its completely horseshit practices feels like an insult to you. You've pretty much said so in your first post. It's not that hard to figure out, really.

It's irrational to feel insulted by this, since it doesn't apply to you. You're Canadian; you should let it go.

[Netpackrat]

At this point I have to believe you're just trolling.

You may have a point there.

[Highspeed]

I really, honestly can't see any trolling going on - I just think :-

1) Bubblewhip isn't managing to explain his feelings about the ban properly
2) His feelings aren't completely logical and consistent anyway
3) Gordon Ramsey is a mouth on a stick
4) Sharks look a bit like the Me262 jet fighter fuselage. Or vice versa

[Termite]

Use the entire shark, if you want its fins. Period. Otherwise, it's wanton waste, and unethical. I'd compare it to shooting deer strictly for their horns or liver, then tossing the rest. Doesn't matter if the hunter wants to eat the rest of the deer, he/she can donate it.

The best example I can think of is trophy hunting in Africa. The hunter brings home the horns, tusks, or cape/mount, and a local village gets the rest; little is wasted. The number of animals harvested is properly managed. It's sustainable, and it's a win/win for all parties.

[First Shirt]

3) Gordon Ramsey is a mouth on a stick

So is Jose Jalapeno, but at least he's funny! (This will make no sense unless you're a Jeff Dunham fan)