they came for Jessica...

[chrisb]

Soon, we may not be able to tell the difference.

[Denis]

Assuming always that these reports are accurate and credible...

On the one hand, I was taught that one should be unfailingly polite, even to those whom one despises. Had the woman embroiled in this incident simply done that, there would have been no problem.

On the other hand, I would defend her right to be as rude as she likes to anyone (particularly a political cold-caller), while recalling that being rude may nonetheless have unpleasant consequences, even if it is one's right.

On the gripping hand, any secret service agent in a position of authority who gives the go-ahead for, or participates in, anonymous intimidation on the basis of a bare hearsay accusation is clearly acting outside the bounds of his authority and, quite possibly, his senses.

[Aaron]

Wow, a Niven/Pournelle reference before 9am, I'm impressed.

I'm following this with a little interest as my wife took a cell call yesterday of the same type. Her response was shorty, but no less certain. When asked if she would vote for Obama, her reply was, "No freaking (edited) way."

If these asshats show up at our house, I'm calling my neighbors then the police.

[Aaron]

So, if said JBTs show up at my door and do present credentials, I have to let them cart my wife off?

[mekender]

On the gripping hand, any secret service agent in a position of authority who gives the go-ahead for, or participates in, anonymous intimidation on the basis of a bare hearsay accusation is clearly acting outside the bounds of his authority and, quite possibly, his senses.

They do it all the time. The USSS is granted by its charter and executive order, the extraodinary power to suspend habeus corpus without probably cause if they feel that there is a clear and present danger to the national security and vital interests of the united states of America.

The USSS can detain you for 72 hours without a warrant, and without probable cause; though if they do so, any information gathered in the time you are detained outside of normal constitutional process cannot be used against you in legal proceedings.

im pretty sure that any LEO agency can too... all they have to do is say that they felt you were a danger to yourself or someone else.

[308Mike]

im pretty sure that any LEO agency can too... all they have to do is say that they felt you were a danger to yourself or someone else.

In California, they have to get a doctor to agree before they'll commit to the 72 hours, otherwise they're released out the back door.

[mekender]

im pretty sure that any LEO agency can too... all they have to do is say that they felt you were a danger to yourself or someone else.

In California, they have to get a doctor to agree before they'll commit to the 72 hours, otherwise they're released out the back door.

and im sure that takes about 10 minutes on the phone...

[Aglifter]

So, if said JBTs show up at my door and do present credentials, I have to let them cart my wife off?

You mean, after you have contacted their main office, to verify their identity, they've produced a warrant for her arrest, and you're lawyer's been contacted, and is on his way to either accompany her in, or meet them -- then, yes.

IMO, if a man w. a gun shows up at your door, and tells you to go w. him, I'd be very, very careful about complying. Even more so if they start balking about you calling a lawyer/asking to verify their IDs, etc -- it's not exactly unknown for criminals to have fake/stolen badges and uniforms.

[308Mike]

im pretty sure that any LEO agency can too... all they have to do is say that they felt you were a danger to yourself or someone else.

In California, they have to get a doctor to agree before they'll commit to the 72 hours, otherwise they're released out the back door.

and im sure that takes about 10 minutes on the phone...

No, they have to physically examine the subject. If it would have only taken 10 minutes over the phone, I could have saved MANY hours waiting for the doctor while I was filling out the paperwork.

[Aaron]

So, if said JBTs show up at my door and do present credentials, I have to let them cart my wife off?

You mean, after you have contacted their main office, to verify their identity, they've produced a warrant for her arrest, and you're lawyer's been contacted, and is on his way to either accompany her in, or meet them -- then, yes.

IMO, if a man w. a gun shows up at your door, and tells you to go w. him, I'd be very, very careful about complying. Even more so if they start balking about you calling a lawyer/asking to verify their IDs, etc -- it's not exactly unknown for criminals to have fake/stolen badges and uniforms.

I know, I know, I was a little pissed when I wrote that, but I do know the drill.

I also know the three Ss.