The Gun Counter

She's here! The word giant really doesn't even begin to describe it. I'll say this: The weight on the shipping notice was 1585 pounds. It's six feet high, five feet wide, and two and a half feet deep.

Background

As long as a year ago, I began to look for a safe to hold my collection, at that time, about 18 long rifles. The rule of thumb is "buy as big as you can afford", rather than to buy one that will fit your collection.

I first found a company called Sportsman Steel Safes. They build one the same size, with the same features, but after reading reviews of their business practices, I nixed them from my short list. So my search began again, and I found Homeland Security Safes. http://www.homelandsafes.com

I had never heard of this company, so I tried doing research on the net, but to no avail. There was little to no info available. But I did find the Gun Safe buyer's guide here: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

They did have a picture of one, and I figured that a super-paranoid benchrest shooter wouldn't just trust his guns to anyone. So I started with that, called the company with a few questions, and decided that I'd risk it.

The Safe

Homeland Security Safes has three levels of protection, aptly named level II, V, and VII. Each level offers a difference in protection, both from robbery as well as fire. While doing my preliminary investigations, I found that a lot of robberies have happened where the thief has used a fire axe to hack through the relatively thin 16-14 gauge steel of the safe sides in a matter of minutes. More gun safe companies have been increasing the thickness of their safes to 10 or 8 gauge steel to prevent against this. The level VII has a 4 gauge body. Four gauge steel is .2242 inches thick. It should be heavy enough to make life difficult for a robber. The safe that I bought is a level VII.

The lock is a Sargent & Greenleaf lock, I'll have to check which model. S&G is a leading name among lock makers, and is considered an industry standard. This particular model of safe has 20 1.5" locking lugs, a relocker, and an anti-drill plate (60 Rockwell).

Fire

A secondary reason for choosing the level VII was its fire resistance. The level VII is lined with a ceramic blanket called Kaowool. Supposedly, this gives it a much greater fire resistance than ordinary fireboard. Their numbers give it a 2300 degree fire resistance. This seems unbelievable, but they told me that they had a number of customers who were affected by some of the latest round of wildfires. The contents of their safes survived, and Homeland Security Safes replaced their damaged safes.

Mine is a 64-gun model, though well all know that these numbers are bull no matter who they come from. I can say for sure that my 20-some odd long guns fit with plenty of room to spare. In fact, the safe is so wide that guns can be laid down on the top shelf.

Though it did cost me quite a bit, I am happy with it so far. I'll add more thoughts on it in the coming days as my experience lengthens.

I'm trying to attach a pic. You can't see the far left row of rifles, and there's an M1 Garand in the white plastic bag. It came from CMP, and I still haven't de-cosmoed it. For scale in the front, you can see an M1, and next to that, his and hers M4geries with the stocks fully extended.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2a4pp3c.jpg

**How can I move 3/4 ton off of a pallet without killing myself? It's where I want it, just still on the pallet?

Go to your friendly tool rental store and select one of the following alternatives, then rent the most reasonable tool for your situation , room and clearance allowances.

Alternative 1 )
A pallet jack with strategically placed blocks under your safe, and cut or break the pallet away.

Alternative 2)
3 or more bottle jacks and raise it enough to remove pallet in pieces.

Alternative 3)
a portable hoist , tow straps and raise it off the pallet and lower it back down


good luck, and be very careful , Tom

Hot damn! Nice unit. I need another one soon. I'm trying to hold out until I build an addition and add a small vault room in the basement.

Moving it off the pallet? Tough one. A bunch of friends (and the requisite amount of beer) and some Schedule 40 PVC pipes of various sizes to roll it off the pallet then back to the spot you want it in might be the ticket.

The problem with jacking it up and taking the pallet out is taking the jacks/blocks out while lowering it.

You could leave it on the pallet and bolt it to the floor. The problem with that option is the lag screws would be vulnerable to a Sawzall attack.

Jag;

We use Kaowool at work, to fill the gaps in the tunnel furnaces, which operate at about 2200 degrees (F). Usually have to replace it every six months or so, during maintenance shutdowns. It's also what my son-in-law uses to insulate his forge, but don't ask where he gets it.

Well, if it's used in furnaces, I'd say that it's pretty fire resistant.

A few more thoughts:

They brag about having a gap between the steel of the outside and the inside fire lining. Now, if it was vacuum, that would be awesome, but since it's just air, I don't think that it's really any better than having more insulation there. It will prevent heating through conduction, but not from convection, so I guess it's just six of one, half dozen of the other.

My Sargent and Greenleaf lock is kind of touchy. I suppose that it's good in the long run, but if I don't put in the combo smooth and precise enough, it won't unlock.

Jag: Depending on what type of threshold you need to go over, see if a local rental shop has a pair of these at http://www.aarentalcenter.com/catalog/p ... asp?id=561. They'll come with straps. Place one under each side, strap them together and pump it off the ground. The ones I've used in the past had six inch casters.

JAG2955 wrote: They brag about having a gap between the steel of the outside and the inside fire lining. Now, if it was vacuum, that would be awesome, but since it's just air, I don't think that it's really any better than having more insulation there.

Air is a pretty darned good insulator in that sort of application. Probably not better than having more insulation, but still better than having neither.

First Shirt wrote:also what my son-in-law uses to insulate his forge, but don't ask where he gets it.

Kaowool is a brandname for a high temperature insulator. it comes in rigid boards, or the much more common "blanket". It's commonly found at pottery supply places. McMaster sells a similar product I believe. Anvilfire carries it as well.


HTRN

JAG2955 wrote: **How can I move 3/4 ton off of a pallet without killing myself? It's where I want it, just still on the pallet?

I'd just lift it off with the forklift

Okay, that's probably not an option for you. I've moved more big heavy stuff (safes, machine tools, ag equipment, etc.) than I care to remember. Much of it before I had a forklift so I can claim a fair amount of experience in this area. Safes are relatively easy because of the nice large flat bottom. You appear to have an open pallet so that can help (of course it can also hinder). Usually you can skither it across the pallet with a flat bladed pry bar a little at a time until you're near the balance point at the side of the pallet. Your width to height ratio is such that you're unlikely to be able to tip it over but keep the direction of tipping in the long axis of the base anyway. If you place a chunk of wood that's slightly lower than the height of the pallet alongside the pallet, skither the safe off the pallet until it begins to teeter over the block and tip it until it's resting on the block with one side on the floor (or on a lower board if the amount of tipping worries you). You can then pry the high side up enough to remove the pallet (levers/big pry bars are your friend here). You can then rock the safe back and forth onto progressively lower blocks of wood near the central axis until it's low enough to either drift the remaining block out and drop it or (preferably in this case) to give it the final lift with the pry bar, remove the remaining block, and lower it to the ground. I've used similar techniques on things like No.3 Cincinnatti Milling Machines which are around 7K lbs. The trick is to use balance and lift one side at a time so that you don't have to lift all of it at once. A little common sense goes a long way. Remember, Gravity isn't just a good idea, it's the LAW.

I hope this is clearer than mud.

Sargent and Greenleafe are top-quality locks. When I was working in Aerospace those were the locks approved by DoD and used for all file cabinets that contained secret materials (mere company private got the Masterlocks).

Big and expensive though. Interesting to read about how touchy it is to enter the combination. Never having worked on secret material I was never issued one and so never had to use one.