The Gun Counter

The recent thread on boots reminded me...

I spent Saturday morning sitting in the woods in Germany, in falling snow and temperatures of -10 Centigrade (14F). Fortunately, there was no wind to add an extra chill.

I had some of those iron-filing-and-salt "teabag" heated boot insoles, and some click-to-start gel heatpacks in my pockets. The insoles don't cut it at those temperatures, and they certainly don't last the promised 6 hours. The gel-packs are good for instant heat for a short period, but something that puts out less heat for longer would be better.

That got me thinking about electrically (battery) heated socks and gloves. Which have you tried, and can you recommend any? Any tips for good sources and good value?

While we're on the topic, what about other heat sources - charcoal sticks, kerosene pocket heaters, and such. Any favourites?

No, no and no.
I'm sorry, but in my opinion if you get cold outside you are either dressed wrong or you're a wimp. In your case it's the former.

I've been out a lot in cold temperatures, and I dont use any kind of heating device. Understand that I'm very sensitive to cold and loose dexterity in my fingers easily, so I have had to learn how to dress properly, and also modified some solutions that work for my needs. But heating pads isn't one of them.

You will not see anyone that's used to being out in cold temperatures use any electric heater. I see it a lot with people that go into the outdoors in their regular winter street clothes, and then think an artificial heat source will help them. It doeasn't, it only focus their attention to the heatsource they use and away from what they are out there for in the first place. It's a lot better to learn to dress right and not be dependent on high tech stuff (especially when the batteries run out.)

First, invest in good winter boots. Add wool insoles. Use a liner sock and one or two pairs of wool socks. Use wool underwear. (I can really recommend Brynje Arctic.) Use multiple layers of clothing, and have a waterproof/windproof layer as a shell. Use good headwear. And dont use fullfinger gloves unless you will have them on constantly, it's better to use 3/4 finger gloves and use mittens over or put them into your pockets to warm them up. Just dont take your gloves on and off all the time.

If you're sitting still outside while hunting, I'd add a foam seat and a layer of foam under your feet. (Years ago they used branches of pine for the same effect). If that's not enough, either a wool blanket wrapped around your legs, or a heavy wool coat will add the extra warmth you need to be able to stay still. I actually made my own coat for that specific purpose.

Erik wrote:First, invest in good winter boots. Add wool insoles. Use a liner sock and one or two pairs of wool socks. Use wool underwear. (I can really recommend Brynje Arctic.) Use multiple layers of clothing, and have a waterproof/windproof layer as a shell. Use good headwear. And dont use fullfinger gloves unless you will have them on constantly, it's better to use 3/4 finger gloves and use mittens over or put them into your pockets to warm them up. Just dont take your gloves on and off all the time.

If you're sitting still outside while hunting, I'd add a foam seat and a layer of foam under your feet. (Years ago they used branches of pine for the same effect). If that's not enough, either a wool blanket wrapped around your legs, or a heavy wool coat will add the extra warmth you need to be able to stay still. I actually made my own coat for that specific purpose.

Hmm. maybe, I need better winter boots, then. I was wearing these cold-weather boots with a rubber sole, felt liner and quilted tops. I was wearing a single pair of wool socks. Perhaps I'll add another pair and a liner pair.

I definitely do need better gloves. I have a set of 3/4 gloves with a pull-over mitten top, that folds over and pins back, to expose your fingertips (for shooting). Unfortunately the fabric is synthetic, and not particularly warm. I think I will switch to 3/4 sheepskin gloves, and use a fox-fur muff to put my hands inside when I don't need to manipulate anything.

For the rest, my equipment was pretty much as you described. On top - IceBreaker merino wool underwear, a thin wool cardigan, a woollen kidney protector, two synthetic fleeces, a merino Buff and a wool scarf, topped off with a Harkilla Pro-Hunter jacket. On my head, a balaclava and a cap with ear-flaps. On the legs, merino long-johns, Bundeswehr quilted cold-weather trousers and HellyHansen waterproof overtrousers.

I was sitting on a foam mat, with my feet on another, and I was wrapped in a heavy woollen (Czech army-surplus) blanket. In fact, I bought a bunch of those blankets; I will make them into a cape / sitting-sack arrangement when I have time to do some cutting and stitching work.

All in all, I was toasty and warm from 8.30 until 13.30, except for my feet and hands from time to time. My feet cooled off after the tea-bag insoles ran down, but not enough to be uncomfortable, and my hands simply grew colder as time passed, despite wrapping my gloved hands in my blanket (the gel-packs did help a lot in warming my hands up again). The absolute worst bit was unloading my rifle at the end of the shoot - the cold metal instantly drained the heat from my hands - ouch.

Probably better foot- and hand-wear is in order, then... I am rather considering one of those "Russian" fur hats too. Suggestions?

First, I know I overdid it a bit in my first statement, mostly for effect. But there's a Swedish saying that "there's no bad weather, only bad clothes", and it's true. As Chris said there's times when different heaters probably have it's place. I've bought a few over the years to try them out, but they've always ended up in a drawer, I just cant get much use out of them.

I dont know those boots, but they certainly look ok for -10C. I've used Nokia Tuura for years, well below -20 on occation. I'm told the Kaira is even warmer, but havent tried it. I also have a pair of Powerboots but find them too warm if I'm doing any kind of work. They would probably be great for sitting still for hours though.

Now, the boots themselfes are only a shell, they wont add much warmth, so your problem is the socks. Nowadays I use three pairs in the Nokia, a liner sock, a thin wool sock, and a Helly Hansen fleece sock if I'm going to move around a lot. If I'm mostly going to sit still I'll replace the fleece with a heavy wool sock. (Wool is warmer than fleece, but fleece is easier to wash and dry)

As for your hands, I've seen those gloves with mitts over and I dont like them. I find them really cold and mostly in the way.. You also need something that will keep your wrists warm with a closer fit, and those types of gloves tend to leave your wrists exposed. You need to keep your writst warm for your hands to stay warm. I used to use wool finger gloves like these for a long time, but since I do a lot of fishing in winter I switched to fleece versions that are easier to clean, despite not being as warm. For shooting handguns in the winter I now use Houdini Gaters. They keep the hand decently warm and when I shoot I simply pull out my thumb and keep them on the wrist. Add a muff or mittens to keep your hands in when you're not using them, and those relatively thin gloves will be enough.

As for a hat, as long as it's warm I dont think it matters much. I've used military standard issue fleece caps down to -20, but anything that's to your liking and keeps you warm is good. It should be something that wont get wet though, once it gets wet it gets cold.

You also need something that will keep your wrists warm with a closer fit

+1

I've been using wristovers from Brigade Quartermasters (can't find them on their site right now, they seem to come and go. here's basically the same thing) and they are great. On more moderate days, I can get by with those alone and no gloves.

What works for me when shooting, working the snow blower, etc, is a pair of wristovers, a pair of Nomex aircrew flight gloves (increase dexterity work manipulating weapons, machinery, driving, etc), and a pair of milsurp shooting mittens over them when I don't need the fine dexterity. If it gets really cold, I put in the wool shooting mitten liners over the flight gloves.

Pretty much agree with everyone else.

My boots are Rocky Responders, with Gortex and Thinsulate. With wool socks I was once able to spend a full day shooting in 0 degree F weather, including a stint standing in a puddle of water up to my ankles fixing a target, and stayed toasty warm and dry.

I carry heat packs primarily in my first aid kit to treat hypothermia, and they are nice for warming up a sleeping bag if I get caught out somewhere.

I don't wear any fleece or synthetics in the cold. I couldn't get warm, and was drenched when I had fleece as one of my layers in Belarus - and got much warmer once I took it off. It's just a bad idea - silk and wool will keep you much drier. I do wear silk, in addition to wool, usually as a next to skin layer.

There's plenty of washable wool available these days, which holds up quite well - I used to wear smart wool stuff under my cotton sweats when training for strongman - I really just wore the cotton for abrasion resistance.

Aglifter wrote:I don't wear any fleece or synthetics in the cold. I couldn't get warm, and was drenched when I had fleece as one of my layers in Belarus - and got much warmer once I took it off. It's just a bad idea - silk and wool will keep you much drier. I do wear silk, in addition to wool, usually as a next to skin layer.

I agree completely. But I do stray from it on occasion, simply because fleece offers a bit more abrasion resistance and makes washing a bit easier. The heavy wool socks I prefer needs handwashing. It's a trade-off, with fleece you have to accept that it wont keep you as warm as wool, and that it doesn't ventilate as well either, for the benefit of practicality. One thing with wool is that it takes time to dry, and after a day with rubber boots on the outer pair of socks will usually be wet. Fleece is a bit simpler to handle that way, you can put it closer to a heatsource and dry it out faster. Or have a few extra pairs.
But it's always wool closest to the body, and fleece only when I feel can accept the tradeoffs. When in doubt, wool.

When camping in the cold tossing a hand-warmer by your feet and another one by your chest area 30-60 minutes before going to bed will make sleeping even in a -30 bag much nicer.

Erik wrote:But there's a Swedish saying that "there's no bad weather, only bad clothes".

I first heard that saying from a woman from Siberia who claimed it was a Siberian saying

This is all good advice. I recall reading a magazine article some years back in which the author described his efforts to have warm feet while standing around hunting. IIRC his conclusion was that he needed much looser shoe-pacs and to stand on some sort of insolite type foam insulation.

moose42 wrote:When camping in the cold tossing a hand-warmer by your feet and another one by your chest area 30-60 minutes before going to bed will make sleeping even in a -30 bag much nicer.

When I was running an outdoors program for a local university several years ago (okay, more than a decade), I ALWAYS packed extra heat pads for those students/participants who either didn't have proper camping gear or forgot to pack correctly for the high desert (where the nights can get below freezing even if the days are t-shirt weather). For these poor souls, I always had plenty of those 12-24 hour charcoal-activated heat packs and I'd tell them to put one in the foot of their sleeping bag at least an hour prior to their heading off to bed (and get the extra air out of the foot of their bag by using extra clothing, etc. - dead air is harder to heat)

I don't remember how many students I saved from shivering their butts off during the night and not getting any sleep because they brought out those old flannel slumber-party sleeping bags for use in near freezing temperatures. We encouraged them to rent proper bags from the outdoor rentals, but being typical college students, they preferred to not listen to people with more knowledge & experience, even those trying to make their trip more comfortable and restful. I have to admit that the women were far more accepting of the suggestions than the guys, especially the jocks who thought they could tough it out - 'cause they've played some sports and been through football "hell-week" (college football "hell-week" is NOTHING compared to the SEAL's "HELL-WEEK").

When I went through SCUBA training, they taught us that the vast majority of heat loss comes from where the skin in the thinnest, and that's the HEAD, HANDS, & FEET. You keep those warm, and the rest of the body will follow. Shoving students into foot-heated sleeping bags, and with watch-caps on their heads always made for warm students who usually slept very well after I exhausted them during the day.

I've used electric socks, and find them useful for the times I've needed them. Unfortunately, there's no way to control the amount of heat coming across your toes. It's either an ON or OFF situation, but it's pretty easy to access the snap containing the contact for the battery on each foot/heated sock (usually a single "D" cell battery on each sock). I found them quite handy for when you need to stand watch on cold concrete slabs while either guarding prisoners or on the flightline guarding aircraft.

The socks themselves are usually wool socks with (maybe) some cotton woven in to help spread the heat, but the wool isn't affected by either wetness or sweat. Considering the cost involved, I felt they were a good present and the recipient agreed (who works in a local jail walking on cold concrete ALL DAY LONG - and NOTHING like standing in formation for 20 minutes, the jail is MUCH WORSE for having the cold seep through your boots).

Bottom line, YMMV and each person will have to make their own decisions and choices, using whatever information is available to them at that time.

*IF* someone you know is considering getting such an item, please have them check the return policy in case they fall under the non-refundable electronics instead of the usual clothing policy.

I still have and occasionally USE my battery-heated socks, and AFAIC, they still come in DAMN handy!! I like them enough to give them as gifts to those working in environments where they may be standing on cold concrete for hours at a time - so the cold seeps up into the feet and soles, causing the body to cool and perhaps get cold.

HEAT the HEAD - the HANDS - & FEET, and the rest of the body WILL follow.