The Gun Counter

I work for an armored car company and am considering purchasing some new body armor for work. I had a vest up until earlier this year, but it was stolen and I have been doing without since then. However two recent events have caused me to want to get one as soon as I can. First one of our guys was shot a little while ago (he's OK and back at work) and second we got a new armor vendor, Armor Shield USA, that sells better carriers than the old one (the old one was Point Blank via Galls). I had not heard of these guys until they got the contract with my company but they seem pretty good, and at least I can get a vest with the MOLLE loops on it if I want now.

I should note here that the vests all have to be black, and both the Galls and Armor Shield vests are NIJ certified to .04 and 2005 interim requirements. There are no vests available that have been tested under the new requirements and if I wear a vest it HAS to be from one of these companies. My company also has a program where they will pay for the first $100 of a vest and loan you the rest of the money interest free so that you can get your vest immediately.

There are, of course, a myriad of features, options, and whatnot to work out. I know that I want an external "tactical" *sigh* vest and I know that I want level IIIA armor. However they have three different "tactical" vests and two different kinds of level IIIA armor. As for the vest type I have pretty much decided on the "Panther" type with MOLLE loops. The zipper going down the middle is not actually through the armor, but is just there to make getting the vest on and off easier. The "Grizzly", though already MOLLEd out, doesn't seem to have as many loops on it as the MOLLEd "Panther" I have seen at work. I also don't know what the deal is with all the Velcro on the front is. We also have the option of the "Kodiak" but it looks like the low end "entry level" vest and I am not real interested in it. These are my only three options and you can see pictures and spec sheets on the site I linked above under their Tactical Armor section.

The armor type is a bit more fuzzy. As I said I want level IIIA armor. This would normally be straightforward but the company sells two different kinds, the standard IIIA armor "Gold" series and a "Special Threat" series that is supposed to be even better than standard level IIIA and is also more expensive (by $180 for the vest I want). The "Gold" series is, as I said, pretty standard. It is 1.1lbs/sq ft, .20" thick and is "tested to 17g MIL SPEC frag at 1804 ft/s". I find the threat of hand grenades to be unlikely in my line of work but what the hell right. The "Special Threat" series is 1.0lbs/sq ft, .23" thick, and in addition to normal IIIA protection is supposed to protect from the following:

S&W Mag 500GR FP XTP
FN 5.7x28mm 40 GR HDY V-MAX
7.62x25 Tokarev SJLC (question, what the hell does SJLC mean?)
9mm Glaser Safety Slug (ohh scary!)

Armor Shield is also offering stand alone ceramic 10"x12" level IV plates for $125. This seems like a really good deal, and at least one fellow I know has bought 4 plates from these guys because of the price. Everyone at work has been real happy with the vests so far and considers them to be superior to the old Point blank/Galls vests that we used to have. Of course no one had been shot in their vest yet so it's hard to tell for sure. Anyway I essentially have two questions. First is the "Special Threat" series worth the extra $180 that they want for it and second are the rifle plates be a worthy investment and if so how many should I get? Thanks in advance for all your help.

I agree with Chris except I suggest getting a front and back, esp for those prices. If you feel the need for a plate, you are going to want both plates. Better to have and not need than need and not have.

Thanks for the replies. As for the guns used in robberies about half are what I would consider standard handguns, 9mm, .38 and the like. The other half are guys with rifles. Very few robberies, if any, are committed with guns/ammo that the special stuff would have stopped but the normal stuff would not have. This is why I am a bit torn about the armor type. As far as I know none of our guys actually wear their rifle plates. Hell the one guy we have had shot got hit in each thigh and the hand with a .38 so a vest would not have done much for him.

Does a man survive being hit in a soft vest by a 500/44 mag, etc? Even if the bullet doesn't penetrate...

Seriously, the odds against any armored car robber being armed with a .500 magnum have got to be astronomical.

I did some of those tests a while back when developing a new type of body armor. It was good but not so good or different that we could compete with the current makers, so I went on to do other stuff namely the cryo brakes and springs.

Most of these shots are from a .357 158 against a class III vest. Some were .44 mag and the hard plates were .308. I have some photos from my testing at H.P. White around here somewhere but I'll post a few of our preliminary tests that I have handy.

Netpackrat wrote:Seriously, the odds against any armored car robber being armed with a .500 magnum have got to be astronomical.

No kidding. Of course with movies like heat and the execrable The Town you will probably see rifles deployed if they are professional or want to pretend they are.

I'd personally be more concerned with being hit by something like a 12 gauge with slugs or an AR/AK/SKS. I think if the armored car robbery plan includes riflemen with .300 magnums, you are probably fucked no matter what.

Ultimately still not worth it. In that period of time you can earn far more than that and that's not including the hazard pay. To earn that amount you can do a hitch overseas and not have much risk of going to jail.

As I said all the guns in robberies against my branch have been standard pistols or guys with AKs. No shotguns and no Dirty Harry specials. As for the money I can't quote specific figures (they get kinda angry if I do that) but I can say that there was one crew that was hitting us about once every two weeks a few years ago. They got caught in the end, and it turned out that they had some help from inside. All in all it was an interesting 6 months. The best (if there is such a thing) robberies are where the steal an empty bag or a bag full of checks.