Covert rifle carry

[randy]

I guess where I diverge from Greg, et al, is that I've been trying to envision where and when, give my current lifestyle, I would be that

1. I HAD to go even if the vibes were bad.

2. That I would be far enough from my truck to not be able to get to my truck gun quickly, but would still be able to legally carry (CCW or discreet rifle).

3. That did not involve a bug out situation that fell short of having the rifle out and ready to roll. (In which case I get to the truck, grab my gear, including whatever the truck gun is in, and move out)

And I'm coming up with nada in my particular set of circumstances.

I currently work in Prohibited zone, (at least it's semi secure with armed sheriff's deputies in the building and some controlled access and other security measures), while the garage I park in is not, and it is connected to the building I work in at several levels, some of which require access cards (which I have one) to get through. Hence, truck gun.

My daughters school is a prohibited zone, but under state law as long as I just pull in the drive way to drop/pick her up and don't exit the vehicle, I'm OK, and, of course, the truck gun is right behind me.

All my other normal routine areas are of the type that if I feel hinky enough to need a long gun with me in addition to my pistol, I'm not going, and don't have to go.

I understand the active shooter scenario, but since I'm not allowed to carry at work, and the other places I'm likely to be I'll either be able to get to the truck gun rapidly, or my pistol will be enough at the likely engagement ranges (inside buildings, stores NOT shopping malls etc)
to end the threat or to break contact.

And of course, there's always the possibility that one day it's going to really suck to be me. You picks your strategy/tactics and you takes your chances.

Now, at other points in my life, I have lived in places and with circumstances that what CC is talking about would be more practical and more likely for me to use. And I'm liking the discussion and getting ideas for the time when my particular circumstances change.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from doing this (and of course, not for thinking about/discussing this), I just don't currently see an application for it in my current daily life. YMMV and probably does.

[workinwifdakids]

I just can't think of a circumstance in my environment (suburban with light to middle commercial) where a backpack like some I've seen wouldn't call a lot of attention. I think a college school backpack with an inner compartment might be a good answer - the inner portion constructed of HEAVY nylon, with a reinforced bottom, and the upper area sealed to the backpack wall with a heavy seam of Velcro.

EDIT: And now that I'm thinking about it, would it be worth all that trouble for a rifle in 9mm? Can someone post some ballistics for a 9mm from a 16" barrel vs. handgun? I'm not at all certain it would be worth it.

[Greg]

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from doing this (and of course, not for thinking about/discussing this), I just don't currently see an application for it in my current daily life. YMMV and probably does.

That's more than fair. And hey, I live in NJ.

For me it's a fun thought exercise. The idea of being able to carry something like a tactical carbine and load-bearing gear in my backpack, while leading everyone to think I have maybe, at most, a laptop... I just like it.

[randy]

And now that I'm thinking about it, would it be worth all that trouble for a rifle in 9mm? Can someone post some ballistics for a 9mm from a 16" barrel vs. handgun? I'm not at all certain it would be worth it.

I don't have the comparative ballistics handy (I'm sure someone will be along with them in 3,2,....)

However, some points to ponder re a pistol caliber carbine (in no particular order):

In some jurisdictions the legal environment is more permissive for a long gun than a handgun.

You're liable to be more accurate at intermediate to long ranges with long gun due to the longer sight radius and more stable firing platform if you do your job.

Less worries about over-penetration than with a full up rifle round.

Possible ammo/magazine commonality with your CCW piece if you have one.

Long guns can usually handle hotter loads than handguns, and the hot loads are usually more controllable with a long gun.

I think that you usually get more velocity with a long gun, but again, don't have the numbers handy. Now, depending on the bullet type, more velocity may not equal better terminal performance by the bullet.

[Netpackrat]

I'm not particularly a fan of Kel Tec, but their Sub-2000 carbine is wickedly suited for non-permissive carry. You've got a 16-inch item that's ready for action quickly, with no tax stamp or Federal list of 'those people.' Plus, they aren't expensive so you aren't out the price of an expensive SBR if your bag ever gets lost/stolen/destroyed. Let's face it, if you are dragging it through the field, it's more at risk than locked in a box somewhere.

I just wish they would make it in 10mm. For the Sub-2000 to make any sense for me, I'd have to step my carry pistol back down to .40, which I am not real interested in doing.

[Combat Controller]

Unless we try to convert it to 10mm! That .40 folding rifle would put out 10mm speeds with good accuracy I bet.

[Combat Controller]

I should have used a smiley.

That and the mag issues would doom it. But still a 180 gr.40 out of a 16 inch barrel should be trucking right along at 1300-1500 fps at least.

[Netpackrat]

I should have used a smiley.

That and the mag issues would doom it. But still a 180 gr.40 out of a 16 inch barrel should be trucking right along at 1300-1500 fps at least.

Good point.

[workinwifdakids]

And now that I'm thinking about it, would it be worth all that trouble for a rifle in 9mm? Can someone post some ballistics for a 9mm from a 16" barrel vs. handgun? I'm not at all certain it would be worth it.

I don't have the comparative ballistics handy (I'm sure someone will be along with them in 3,2,....)

However, some points to ponder re a pistol caliber carbine (in no particular order):

In some jurisdictions the legal environment is more permissive for a long gun than a handgun.

You're liable to be more accurate at intermediate to long ranges with long gun due to the longer sight radius and more stable firing platform if you do your job.

Less worries about over-penetration than with a full up rifle round.

Possible ammo/magazine commonality with your CCW piece if you have one.

Long guns can usually handle hotter loads than handguns, and the hot loads are usually more controllable with a long gun.

I think that you usually get more velocity with a long gun, but again, don't have the numbers handy. Now, depending on the bullet type, more velocity may not equal better terminal performance by the bullet.

That's fair. What I came up with was around 150fps uptick from handgun to long gun, but I'm hesitant to rely on what I find because I don't want to put anything out that's really wrong. The web site says the 9mm SUB2000 takes GLK17, GLK19, S&W59, BERETTA92, and SIG226 mags.

Also, I want to revisit my other post on this. I think the college-style backpack carry would be the answer, BUT instead of a inside-left or inside-right carry, it would be center-carry inside like a Camelbak.

[randy]

The web site says the 9mm SUB2000 takes GLK17, GLK19, S&W59, BERETTA92, and SIG226 mags.

Now if they'd just make a version in 9 or .40 that took BHP mags I'd be interested.