The AK at 600 Yards / “Frozen Chosin” AAR

[SeekHer]

Submitted just as received in the e-mail to me from Suarez International

We hear all manner of things about what a poor weapon the Kalashnikov is. Usually these comments come from the gun mafia types who run certain magazines and certain shooting schools. We recently got this at the warriortalk forum.

The AK at 600 Yards / “Frozen Chosin” AAR

Worland, Wy. this weekend. We had 16 people show, 3 WT’ers. guns shot included, ar-15, 3 AK’s, M1 Garands, M14, AR-10, SVT-40, XCR, Rem 700 sniper.

day 1
classic iron sighted rifles performed as expected on the 300-50 match. with the Garand taking a 240 out of 300 and the SVT-40 139 out of 300. the AR-10 scoped took high honors tho, beating the Garand shooter.

in the human wave attack, the Garands performed much lower than the 20-30 round mag fed rifles getting off less than 75 rounds in 3 min. the mag feds did markedly better with the highest score going to an AK that managed 98 rounds and 89% hits. The XCR was on the way to domination when it Kaboomed.

day 2
we just sighted our guns and farted around on steel out to 600. Now I know this defy’s conventional wisdom and everyone was really amazed at the results, BUUUT here’s what we saw the AK do.

We sighted out to 300 on pulled and marked targets using stock IRON sights.

We moved back to 400 and proceeded to put rounds on steel with a spotter calling shots. using a Romanian wasr with a romy folder I was able to get about 85% hits on steel from prone with no problem. a few flyers and some shooter error were mostly responsible for misses. results were repeated by 4 other shooters on my gun and a VEPR as well.

At 500 we attempted again. we adjusted sights using only the factory ramp settings throughout the experiment having zeroed earlier out to 300. Once again we were able to obtain 80% hits with relative ease using the “200 yard” AK. Once again we verified using another shooter.

Back to 600!! once again spotted shots with wasr/folder. despite my best efforts I couldn’t keep them on the steel more that 20% of the time.

600 seems to be the crossover point on a mansized target using ball ammo and service grade rifle. I have confirmed this with several rifles and feel that after 500 one must use a much more capable gun and ammo to consistently make hits. a rest/pack/bipod is almost required at this range as well.

Ammo I was using was 762x39 Wolf 122gr HP black box. steel was 16"w x 36"h shaped like a silhouette. 5 mph half value wind at 25f and 4050ft elev. with a slight cow manure taste to the air.

Comments

-the x39 was not really whacking the gong at these ranges and you could usually only hear a slight ‘tink’ it was definitely running out of gas at these ranges.

-the factory ramp sight settings seemed to be right on.

-the front sight is wider than the target, but by using a 6 o’clock hold and centering the target on the sight post, you can still be fairly accurate.

-i was using a pack and the mag for a rest. sometimes a loose mag would cause a failure to feed if i put pressure on the mag wrong. this might be gun related or mag related. not sure.

-I have wrapped the romy folder with some gauze then over wrapped with electrical tape. it’s actually quite comfortable, looks fine and does not interfere with operation. the stock is not wobbly in the least and fairly comfortable to shoot overall.

-the WASR was bone stock except for the folder, and prints about 4-5 MOA when i checked it with this ammo a coupla weeks ago.

-whoever told you that you cant hit with an AK at 500, lied to you. It’s VERY doable.
-hopefully one of the other guys will back me upon this so I don’t look like a big liar.

Jack

[Kommander]

At my local outdoor range there is a gong target the size of a road sign at about 300 yards. I can whack the thing with my AK most of the time, and I do not consider myself to be that stellar of a shot. One underestimates the AK at their own peril. While the AR is still certainly more accurate than the AK, allot of it's mythical inaccuracy is due to it's use against well trained western troops by poorly trained 3rd world militias. Once again is not the gun, it's the person behind it.

[SeekHer]

When we took the area around Mt. Hermon in Northern Israel during the Yom Kippur War we found several AKs with jury rigged side mounts and with scopes attached and they played havoc with our forces attacking their positions...We were coming under aimed fire at around 800M and it started getting dicey at 500M...The "snipers" were firing 5 or 6 round bursts each time and not single aimed shots...We had more wounded then killed because the muzzle climb and cant would angle off and only the side of the torso or an arm would be hit...Had they maintained single shots or very short bursts our losses would have been far greater!

The Kalashnikov shines as a close in fighting weapon and room clearer while the cartridge is capable of longer range...A sniper weapon it will never be but within a squad, suppressing fire is destructive up to around 500M which is exactly what Mikhail Timofeevich designed it to do and be...

[Kommander]

SeekHer You really need to write a book.

[Joe ex PNG]

I was quite suprised when I first took my Wasr-10 w/ sidefolding stock to the range. After becoming bored of shooting paper at 100 yards, I aimed for the gong. And heard that sweet sound of "BAM"....ting- repeat. Fun, fun, fun. I didn't try to shoot any further as my spotting scope is cheap and lacking power, but it would be fun if they had a 300 yard gong.

[Jeffro]

SeekHer You really need to write a book.

+1. I'd buy it fer sure.

[1991A1]

The range where we usually shoot has shots out to 200 yds. I can shoot that distance as well well with my butt ugly WASR as I can with my son's Bushmaster AR. The AR wins in the double tap challenge. The AK jumps around too much, but when I shoot 'em one at a time it shoots well.

It is a good thing that the enemies of our Republic don't take the time to aim their damn weapons!

[Darrell]

The Kalashnikov shines as a close in fighting weapon and room clearer while the cartridge is capable of longer range...

Mad Ogre raves about his CZ 527 in 7.62x39, he shoots varmints with it at several hundred yards.

[morsetaper]

Mad Ogre raves about his CZ 527 in 7.62x39, he shoots varmints with it at several hundred yards.

I have a feeling that the cartridge is quite capable, It's just looked down upon because of the reputation of the AK as an inaccurate weapon. I'd like to get my hands on a 527 in 7.62 and give it a good workout.

[SeekHer]

SeekHer You really need to write a book.

+1. I'd buy it fer sure.

Gentlemen, if I may call you that, I appreciate the vote of endorsement but there are lots of other soldiers, my contemporaries, who had far more interesting, hair raising, funny, dangerous incidents then I'd ever have dreamt about in Israel serving in Vietnam, the Gulf Wars, Somalia and of course the Sandbox...

Sure, we had different Rules of Engagement (ROE) and against an actual army then terrorists or guerrillas until I went to the Border Police then we dealt only with terrorist scum sucking POS SOBs…Major difference being in the phrase “Shoot to Stop” were we mean the cessation of all heart, lungs and brain functions and we literally and figuratively shot first and asked questions later at the little building at Dimona…

Except for that one little war, some twenty border incidents and one home invasion in the States I’ve led a quite boring but eclectic and diverse, uneventful life, which truly wouldn’t make good reading and thank you again, but no thank you…