Arming a Minion

[First Shirt]

Or: How the hell did I get myself into this???

It appears that one of the junior minions is bucking for a promotion to senior minion status, since she has asked me to teach her to shoot, and take her hunting with The Big Girls. I allowed as how I'd be tickled to teach her, and to take her hunting with us, as long as her folks are okay with it. (And they are.) And she's already signed up for her Hunter Safety Course. So there's that excuse out the window.

Problem is with the minion herself, since she's a rather smallish almost-11YO, and while she's got all the heart and attitude that The Almighty could cram into a body that size, I'm worried that she won't have enough lead in her keester to ballast a "real" hunting rifle. I'd hate to sour her on shooting by letting her try something that beats her up. (She's already told her folks that she wants a rifle like Big Sister's, which is a Savage youth model M10 in 7mm-08, with the ugliest stock I've ever seen. It's called "Muddy Girl Camo" and it looks as bad as it sounds, but SM2 wouldn't trade it for a solid gold monkey.)

I'm thinking that my options are either to get her a 7mm-08 and load it down to wimp levels (think 2200-2400 fps) which will require keeping her ammo separate from mine and the girls' ammo, or get her a .243, and set up to start loading for it.

But since we mostly hunt deer and feral hogs, I'm a little leery of using something as light as a .243.

Anybody that has ideas, suggestions or experience in this area, feel free to chime in!

And while you're at it, could someone explain to me why the grandsons would rather play video games than shoot/hunt/be outdoors, while girls are all about getting into the woods with a gun??? Did I miss something somewhere?

[slowpoke]

You need to let her shoot some. Everyone feels recoil differently. She may be fine with a snappier lightweight bullet, or she may prefer a heavier slower recoil, but you need to find out so you know if you should load her with 110gr at 2800fos or 168gr at the 2000fps. If you go the lighter bullet it should be easy to tell by feel and look wich ammo is wich. If she doesnt mind the blast/noise but the recoil is a problem, then you can add a brake too. Heck she may be fine with the same thing her sister shoots, and if cutting it down you can add a thick pad to the stock too. What length of pull does she need?

[blackeagle603]

7mm-08?

Here ya go(175gr RN Hornady) down load a heavy RN for good lower velocity expansion and penetration.

[toad]

Have you considered something like a 6.5X55 Swede or other 6.5mm bullet. A lot of European and African youngers got their start with those bullets.

[Denis]

Excellent. Keep up the good work.

How about a good old .30-'30 levergun? Short and handy for a little one, but perhaps not easy for her supervisor to see when it's loaded.

My choice would be a CZ 527 carbine in 7.62x39 with a 4x scope, or a Burris FastFire or Docter red dot sight.

The 7.62x39 round is ballistically similar to the thutty-thutty, the rifle is short, light and handy, but a nice safe look-inside bolt action. My 527 was/is a big favourite with my younger nephew. He's a smallish 15yo now, but the carbine was already a good fit for him 3-4 years ago.

Much CZ 527 linkage...

http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/364-cente ... RBINE.aspx
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24036&hilit=cz527
http://youtu.be/lT0_xRy4gNg
http://madogre.com/OldMadOgre/PowerHous ... arbine.htm
http://olegvolk.net/blog/2014/01/25/why ... 7-carbine/
http://olegvolk.net/blog/2012/07/15/ano ... 7-carbine/
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/46373-2/C ... 826web.jpg
http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/1454505.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSu7EuQr6o4
http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.be/ ... w-toy.html
http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/cz-527 ... rsion.html
http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_CZ527.htm
http://gunsmagazine.com/cz-527/

Otherwise, any old boltie in .243 or 6.5x55 cut down fore and aft to a suitable length...

[Denis]

And while you're at it, could someone explain to me why the grandsons would rather play video games than shoot/hunt/be outdoors, while girls are all about getting into the woods with a gun??? Did I miss something somewhere?

Sounds like you need to inoculate the boys with some healthy boy-girl rivalry....

[JAE]

A word of caution for the 527s: I purchased one used in excellent condition in 2003 (I think). It missed fired frequently with brass cased US ammo. PMC and Win were the worst - maybe one in six would have primer strike without det. Federal and Rem were better but only slightly. Sent it back to CZ and they replaced the factory striker spring with a Wolf and returned. Same issue persisted so I returned it again and they replaced the rifle. Same issue but with less frequency maybe one ftf out of ten. Steel cased was much better, but still had an occasional mis. Contacted CZ and there tech said the rifle was "designed to fire steel case" and that I should find the ammo that worked best and stick with it... that first part sounded like bs and I told him SKSs and AKM could shoot either and any mordern bolt gun should be able to fire factory ammo. I did loan it to my niece and after I thoroughly explained not to immediately open the bolt if it misfired; she killed her first buck with it. I still worry about the weak primer strikes and the potential for hangfires.

I think NPR said his had a few misfires, but evidently nothing like I experienced so mabye I was just unlucky with both guns. YMMV.

[PawPaw]

You have the same problem I have, and God Bless you for it. Bringing along the younger generation is a blessing and a challenge.

The 7mm-08 is a wonderful cartridge, and I agree that if tiny minion has trouble ballasting the firearm, that's a huge problem. There's not a lot you can do about that problem. She might be simply one of those tiny, petite girls who is never going to get much over 5-nothing and 90 lbs. So be it. You'll have to cut the rifle down to fit her. The 7mm-08 can be loaded down to light-recoiling levels from one of several approaches, either heavy bullets at lower velocities, or lighter bullets at standard velocities.

But since we mostly hunt deer and feral hogs, I'm a little leery of using something as light as a .243.

Don't be afraid of the .243. Most of the stories you remember were from years back when bullet failure was common. Bullets nowadays are much better and the .243 is perfectly capable. With good bullets, the .243 is absolutely devastating for game in the ~200 lb class. I've never shot a hog with the .243, but I have shot deer with it and it's generally a bang-flop. I use Hornady's little 100 grain Interlock (#2453) over a stiff charge of Reloder 22. It pushes the bullet out to 3100 fps with cloverleaf groups. I haven't recovered a bullet yet, but I'm shooting deer with that load.

Or I was till I gave the rifle away last Christmas.



Those two boys are both 12 years old, and just three months between them. The shorter one got my .243 this past Christmas, the taller one got one of my .308s. Both Savage 10s, the only difference is the caliber. They're cousins, and now they argue about caliber selection. Which is better, the .308 or the .243? It's like a perpetual campfire discussion around here.

I feel for you, old friend. It's a heck of a thing trying to raise minions. Both a blessing and a curse, but it's a whole lot of fun.

[Erik]

Have you considered something like a 6.5X55 Swede or other 6.5mm bullet. A lot of European and African youngers got their start with those bullets.

That was my first thought as well. I remember competing with the 6.5X55 Swede when I was 13-14 something, and there were several kids younger than me doing the same thing. The recoil is no problem at all, but the weight of the gun itself might make it difficult to hold it steady if shooting off hand.
Back then I'd say maybe 90 percent of all hunters in Scandinavia used that caliber, and it's still popular today. When I got my hunters license, a lot of the experienced hunters told me that it was the only caliber you needed for anything you wanted to hunt. They used FMJ for small game and soft point for bigger game, and some of them went to hollowpoints for moose.
I don't know enough of the other calibers mentioned to have an educated opinion, but I'd have no problem putting a 6.5X55 Swede in the hands of a young shooter.

[Denis]

...mabye I was just unlucky with both guns. YMMV.

Mine goes bang every time. The only quibble I have about the CZ527 is that one can't single-feed a round into the chamber without loading it into the magazine first. My solution - I carry a couple of spare loaded magazines in my pocket. I'll probably shorten one spare magazine, as seen in the link to RVB precision, above.

I use either factory-boxed modern Sellier & Bellot 7.62x39 ammunition, or the steel cased Czech military surplus stuff in spam cans (also made by S&B) in my CZ 527 and my Vz52 and Vz58 semi-autos. I've never had any failures to fire. In fact, the only time I've had an ignition problem with any Czech rifle was because of a bent firing pin tip in a ZKK 600 (it looked like someone gunthered it by using the firing pin as a lever), and I could fix that simply by heating and re-straightening the pin.

My brother and I have had excellent results on live game with S&B ammunition. His preferred bullet is their lead-nose-soft-point 180-grain in .30-'06, and we both use the 180-grain eXergy lead-free bullets where leaded ammunition is not allowed. I would suggest using S&B 123-grain lead-nosed-soft-points in the CZ527 for shooting game.