The Gun Counter

So, I had been giving some thought lately to getting a bolt gun in 7.62x39. The CZs are nice, but I hadn't really expected to encounter one of these locally. The other option I was considering was buying a short Savage action, and re-barreling. I already have all the tooling for doing that (gauges, action and barrel nut wrenches), but I hadn't really started researching parts for it yet.

Yesterday I was on my way home from the auto parts store, and realized that my route was convenient to stop into GNG and say hi to Kenai, which I hadn't done in a while and oh by the way, check on their reloading supplies. Kenai is a big, old, black gun shop cat who can usually be found laying across the glass counter, soaking up attention. Struck out on reloading supplies, but I was looking through the racks, and spotted a CZ in x39. Pulled it out (it was in one of the racks on the customer side of the counter) and started looking it over, worked the action, tested the set trigger. The set trigger was not setting properly, and I was considering getting it anyway if they could adjust it.

Took it to the counter and mentioned that it had an issue with the set trigger. Counter guy said if I wanted to make one mine, he might have another in back. And sure enough, he did. The trigger was sweet, and it had a nice piece of wood; better than the one from the rack, anyway. At that point I was lost, and after filling out paperwork I left with it. Because I really needed another rifle in 7.62x39...

I had a Redfield Widefield 1.75-5X scope that has been crying out for a new rifle for some time. I have had it since I was a teenager; it has been on several different rifles but I think it has found its forever home now. I mounted it using the rings that came with the rifle. They are a lot taller than I would have preferred, to clear the iron sights, which are also way, way too tall. But in the end I don't think I could have used lower rings, because there is only about 1/4" clearance for the bolt handle in operation, due to the wide eyepiece of the Redfield scope.

I had been planning a trip to the range for today anyway, so I brought it along with whatever brass case x39 I happened to have. It is supposed to be fine with the steel case imported stuff due to the .311" bore (per the CZ website, though AKs are usually .310"), but I didn't run any of that crap through it today. First up was the Federal American Eagle FMJ. After bore sighting and rough zero at 25 yards, I used the FMJ to get it dialed in, at 100 yards. I forgot to bring the zeroing guide that I usually use for the AKs, so I just set it at 2" high at 100 yards and called it good for now. A 5 shot group of the AE FMJ was right around 2", which was honestly about as good I hoped to get from that ammo.

Next up was a partial box of Winchester soft points. This is touted as a hunting load, but I wasn't expecting much from it because it is loaded with .308" bullets. This printed a group of 1-5/8" at 100 yards, which I was pretty happy about. I know that I fired 5 shots, but I only got 4 holes in the target, so either I was aiming at the wrong target for one of them, or it passed through an existing hole (I think this happened, since one of the holes is just a hair oblong-ish). I was using a lead sled rest (overkill for this, but it's the rest I have), and didn't note any pulled shots, so I'm assuming I didn't miss entirely. I had 2 targets on my frame, but I don't recall counting any extra holes in the other one.

Elsewise, the rifle is light and points well. The scope may be higher over the bore than I would have liked, but the stock puts my eye in the right location, so no problem there. I haven't put my scale on the trigger yet, but it is sweet. It's pretty good even without being set. Getting the magazine into the well is sometimes a bit awkward, but I don't expect to be doing any rapid reloads, even after I obtain a second mag. My biggest complaint so far is feed reliability. Rounds sometimes hang up in the magazine, and being a Mauser style bolt, it doesn't like to push feed once the hang up is cleared. I think it will probably improve with use (maybe I should run a bunch of steel case ammo through it after all), or I may take the magazine apart and check for burrs around the edges of the follower.

I'm looking forward to building some handloads for it, to see what it is really capable of. I've had 7.62x39 reloading stuff for a while, but could never bring myself to load up any high precision ammo for the AKs. I may lug it out to my gunsmith friend's place, and see if he thinks there is enough meat for the muzzle to be threaded. The barrel is currently 18.5" long, so it could be shortened a couple of inches if that will help, but I don't think the thickness increases enough there to make much difference. The front sight would also have to be moved back. Neither would be an issue had I built up a Savage instead.

Pics to follow.

I'm looking forward to your loading results. I've still got a Rossi single-shot in x39 that I've been meaning to do some loading for.

Cool, I wish I'd got one before they got scarce and expensive. Hickok 45 on Youtube has a great video on the gun.

http://youtu.be/WSu7EuQr6o4

But in the end I don't think I could have used lower rings, because there is only about 1/4" clearance for the bolt handle in operation, due to the wide objective of the Redfield scope.

If the bolt handle is close to the objective, you've mounted it backwards. The objective is the forward part of the scope, while the end closest to the bolt handle is the ocular bell, or the eyepiece. (It's a trifling criticism, but one I couldn't let lie.)

Captain Wheelgun wrote:I'm looking forward to your loading results. I've still got a Rossi single-shot in x39 that I've been meaning to do some loading for.

You may be waiting a while, as in a few months to a year. Although I've got the tumbler tumbling my fired brass from today just because it can be doing that while I do something else, I'm going to pack up all of my reloading stuff into boxes soon. My house is too small, and I need to start getting a handle on all of my crap before I can even think about finding another one.

Darrell wrote:Cool, I wish I'd got one before they got scarce and expensive.

Gunshop Guy said it took them about a year and a half to obtain the two they had in stock.

PawPaw wrote:The objective is the forward part of the scope, while the end closest to the bolt handle is the ocular bell, or the eyepiece. (It's a trifling criticism, but one I couldn't let lie.)

Google says you are indeed correct.

One pic, anyway. I hand cycled some steel case ammo through it a bunch of times, and it seemed to improve the feeding. It will still sometimes hang up feeding the last round from the magazine.

I also don't really care for the backwards safety, but it is still a sweet little rifle. I suspect that when the kids reach hunting age, one of them is going to steal it from me. The cartridge is near perfect for the smallish deer out on the islands, although it isn't really a good gun for AK because of all the bears. It'll be a good teaching gun, though.

RE the the bolt handle clearance issue: it's commonly called "CZ-itus". I had the same problem with my 550, and had to use taller rings than standard.

Del,

Slug or mik your bore. See if it really is .310-.312. Mini-30s have a .308 bore, but use a long forcing cone to swage .310-.312 bullets down to .308. It's one reason they aren't real accurate. But I found that loading .308 bullets in the 7.62x39 cases yields better accuracy from my Mini-30, and the RCBS die set comes with both .308 and .311 expanders.

Termite, I did some searching and nobody has reported getting a CZ with a .308" bore in this caliber. People who have slugged them all report .311"-.312" and CZ states a .311" bore on their website. Slugging it would still be a good idea and I may do it at some point. I kind of wish they had stuck with .310" like an AK is supposed to have, but I may end up loading it with bullets meant for a .303. The barrel is also stamped saying it has a 1 in 9.5" twist rate, which is the same as an AK.

Among people who try to squeeze more accuracy out of the AK, none of the US made ammo is noted for being any good. Maybe Hornady, if I can find some of that. People who have fired groups from a bench rest have actually reported better accuracy from Wolf than the US made stuff from the major manufacturers. I kind of wish I had taken a few rounds of Silver Bear soft points with me yesterday.

Another thing I found is that the magazine/feeding issues are not uncommon either.

Edit: This bullet from Sierra might be the way to go, if I can find some.

Netpackrat wrote:Termite, I did some searching and nobody has reported getting a CZ with a .308" bore in this caliber. People who have slugged them all report .311"-.312" and CZ states a .311" bore on their website. Slugging it would still be a good idea and I may do it at some point. I kind of wish they had stuck with .310" like an AK is supposed to have, but I may end up loading it with bullets meant for a .303. The barrel is also stamped saying it has a 1 in 9.5" twist rate, which is the same as an AK.

Among people who try to squeeze more accuracy out of the AK, none of the US made ammo is noted for being any good. Maybe Hornady, if I can find some of that. People who have fired groups from a bench rest have actually reported better accuracy from Wolf than the US made stuff from the major manufacturers. I kind of wish I had taken a few rounds of Silver Bear soft points with me yesterday.

Another thing I found is that the magazine/feeding issues are not uncommon either.

Edit: This bullet from Sierra might be the way to go, if I can find some.

I would expect any Czech gun to go with the bigger bore, ala former Warsaw Pact. I have a couple of boxes of Prvi brass cased 7.62x39 soft point I bought years ago, not thinking at the time, and discovered that it did not like feeding in AKs at all--the soft points slammed into the bullet guide and mouth of the chamber, hanging up and denting the points. I always thought it would be perfect for the CZ 527 bolt action.

As for optical objectives, yeah, I knew that from a telescope-ish point of view. A rifle scope is just a small refractor, the objective is at the front. Of course, with a reflector, the objective is the primary mirror, and it IS in the back.

Nice stock you have there, CZ make pretty good guns but their stocks often seem to be made from recycled packing crates ( exaggeration for purposes of humour )