WEC-SAIGA ...Now with O.S.T.

[Fill]

I like the look of that trigger guard from Carolina SS, and they have kits with the FCG modded for fit. Thoughts on some of the other options for internals, like the JTE Power Mainspring, the Krebs safety, or the aftermarket Gas Piston parts?

Carolina SS also has some excellent videos on making the modifications - thanks for the tip.

[Netpackrat]

I like the look of that trigger guard from Carolina SS, and they have kits with the FCG modded for fit. Thoughts on some of the other options for internals, like the JTE Power Mainspring, the Krebs safety, or the aftermarket Gas Piston parts?

I have the Tapco gas piston, mainly because it is a relatively inexpensive way to add a US part for 922r compliance. Note that on the S-12, the hockey puck looking thing (which is actually more of a gas tappet) is the piston, and the part that is threaded into the bolt carrier where the normal AK piston would be, is NOT. It's generally referred to as a "bolt carrier extension" and is supposedly not a 922r countable part, although possible confusion there is a good reason to have more US parts than you absolutely need. [EDIT: ATF later ruled that the BCE is an "operating rod, and therefore a countable part.]

I would stick with the standard recoil spring. The aftermarket ones I have seen are actually a reduced power spring, intended to improve cycling with low powered ammunition. I'd much rather keep the original spring, and rely on polishing and break in (and fixing the gas system if you have a vodka special) to be able to run low power shells. The enhanced safeties are more of a personal thing. I have long fingers, and have no trouble actuating the standard safety without removing my right hand from the grip. The only thing I do with the safety, and I do this on every AK that I build, is reduce the tension of the safety so that it operates more smoothly and with less effort. You can do this by rotating the safety upwards with the gun field stripped, and simply tweaking it outwards manually. I usually do this by hand, although a soft pliers is sometimes helpful. Don't go too far, although it is easy enough to tweak back the other way. I also like to add a detent for the safety to my receiver in the fire position, using a ball burr in my Dremel tool.

[Fill]

I guess I'll hold off on buying that Krebs safety - $65 is a lot for a safety. I'll put a gas piston on it, just for the 922r. What's the difference between the internal adapter block that you got and the one that Chris linked? They both have the same description, even though they're obviously different. I'm also thinking I want to take the siderail off, gotta do a little research and see if it's something I can do in the garage.

It needs to run reduced-recoil buckshot, and have and adjustable stock, in order to be a useful HD firearm for the Cmdr. Does the power mainspring (not the recoil spring) count to 922r? And if I'm counting right, by doing the Tapco G2 (3 parts), a US stock (1 part), and a US gas block (1 part, but I'd buy both parts to be sure) I can run whatever forend and magazines I want, yes?

and thanks again for all the insight and experience, from everyone.

[Netpackrat]

I guess I'll hold off on buying that Krebs safety - $65 is a lot for a safety. I'll put a gas piston on it, just for the 922r. What's the difference between the internal adapter block that you got and the one that Chris linked? They both have the same description, even though they're obviously different. I'm also thinking I want to take the siderail off, gotta do a little research and see if it's something I can do in the garage.

The difference is the one I linked is drilled and tapped for allen screws through the holes left when you convert to a standard AK trigger group. This doesn't really add anything in terms of strength, but you are going to want to fill those holes with something anyway. A lot of the conversion kits come with little plastic plugs that you slip into the holes. A couple of issues with removing the side rail. It is held on by three solid steel rivets through the receiver that will need to be drilled out. IIRC, the forward two will just leave holes in the side of the receiver that need to be filled somehow. You could probably do that with the MIG welder you mentioned if you are good enough with it. Clamp a small piece of copper sheet inside the receiver as a backup, and use the mig to fill the hole, then grind the outside smooth. You'll want to practice this on scrap first. I am pretty sure the rear hole shares a rivet with the rear trunnion (not a "trunnion" per 922r, it's just a stock tang). This rivet will need to be removed completely, and then a new solid rivet driven it its place. I've done each of these tasks before on other AK builds, but it isn't for the faint of heart, and you definitely can screw up your gun. Probably not beyond the ability of professional help to fix it, but beware of becoming your own Bubba.

It needs to run reduced-recoil buckshot, and have and adjustable stock, in order to be a useful HD firearm for the Cmdr. Does the power mainspring (not the recoil spring) count to 922r? And if I'm counting right, by doing the Tapco G2 (3 parts), a US stock (1 part), and a US gas block (1 part, but I'd buy both parts to be sure) I can run whatever forend and magazines I want, yes?

I had to look up that so-called "main spring" you mentioned. Looks like it is just a replacement for the hammer spring, and I can't for the life of me figure out why somebody would want to do that. The AK series has an excellent, double wound hammer spring that works well and almost never gives any trouble. The "power mainspring" looks like it is made out of a single piece of piano wire. It may be everything that they say it is, but since there isn't anything wrong with the existing spring, I would say save your money. And it does not count as a 922 part. Here's the link I always post on 922r compliance for the AK:

http://www.gunco.net/forums/f43/aks-16- ... parts-696/

As for whether or not it will cycle the reduced recoil loads; it is impossible to say, because the guns themselves vary so widely. I'm sure it can be made to cycle them if it doesn't out of the box. Mine cycles low power trap loads on the most open gas setting, but I did get a few failures to extract. From what I've read, most of them will run in after a few hundred rounds and eventually work with most ammo, as long as you didn't get one with a dicked up gas port.

Edit to add: There is no US made gas block so far as I am aware. There are lots of options for US gas pistons. Assuming your pistol grip is also of US manufacture, you should be good to go. I would recommend also putting a US made muzzle device on if you get one of the models with a threaded barrel, in case they ever decide that the factory thread protector counts as a foreign muzzle attachment. The Tromix brakes are supposed to help a lot with recoil.

[Netpackrat]

Today, for schitzengiggles, we are going to learn how to make our very own 922r compliance part. If you peruse the list I linked in my above reply to Fill showing all the 922r countable parts, you will see that the vast majority of them are well beyond the capabilities of even an advanced WECSOGer, with the possible exception of things like gas pistons and muzzle devices, if you happen to have a lathe and are skilled in its use. Normally, anyway. Take note that in their infinitely questionable wisdom, the ATF chose to include the lowly magazine floorplate in the list of countable parts. I think they did because most floorplates would be a royal bitch to duplicate without full-on metal stamping tools, and they were trying to make getting around the 922r regulation difficult. And while we all know how well that ultimately worked out for them, the interesting thing here is that the floorplate on the Saiga shotguns is just about the easiest part to make. You can literally make one out of piece of sheet metal using hand tools and a drill. This also goes for the Saiga .308 factory magazines, which are made the same way.

One caveat first... Know that in WECSOG circles, using magazine parts for 922r compliance is considered to be sub-optimal. You have to make sure that every mag that you use with the weapon in question has the US parts installed, and a good argument can be made for installing them in every mag you have that will fit that weapon, not just the ones you are planning to use. Things happen, and I don't for a minute believe that the ATF would be above "losing" your US magazines and/or mag parts and replacing them with original (foreign made) before introducing your gun as evidence for the prosecution. I'm not aware of any individual who ever got prosecuted for a 922r violation, but better safe than sorry. That said, there are plenty of circumstances where a US made mag floorplate could be just the ticket, like if you don't want to do a full pistol grip conversion, but you DO want that cool flash hider. Install a set of US made wood furniture, US gas piston, and US floorplates in your magazine, and you are good to go. Or maybe you did the conversion, but for whatever reason the furniture you want to use is of foreign manufacture, and you need another compliance part.

I don't fall into either of those categories. Strictly speaking, my Saiga already has enough US parts to be 922r compliant no matter what magazines I am using. My primary motivation is a desire to color code my magazines for different ammo types, so I can quickly identify what type of shells I am grabbing out of my magazine pouch. It is just a lot easier to get paint to stick to metal than it is to plastic, and not have it end up looking like complete crap.



Anyway, here is a crappy picture showing the original plastic floorplate and the slot in the magazine that it fits into. The part that fits into the slot measured .088" with my calipers, so you want to find a piece of metal as close to this thickness as possible. I used .080" aluminum; if you have a piece of .090" you could probably cram it in there just fine.



Laying out on a piece of scrap .080" 2024t3 aluminum. This is an extremely strong aircraft alloy that I had available as scrap (missing certs and couldn't be used on aircraft); any old aluminum of the right thickness should work. I clamped the Izzy floorplate to the metal, marked the hole using (IIRC) a 13/64" transfer punch, and then marked the outline using a scribe. After unclamping, the 7/32" hole is drilled where you punched.



Rough cutting on the bandsaw; try to get close to the line. You could easily do this by hand with a hack saw.



Trimming to size on the disc sander; sand until the scribe line just disappears. Be sure to wear leather gloves because aluminum transmits heat from sanding VERY quickly. If you don't have a stationary sander, you can clamp it in a vise and take it down to size with a file. Be sure to lightly file all edges and corners smooth. Just because blood is always a possibility with WECSOG, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to prevent it.



Completed floorplates next to the original.



US made floorplate installed in Izhmash factory 5 round magazine. Again, for my amusement, I punched "USA" into each plate with 3/16" high letters. There is no requirement that you mark your parts with the country of origin, and it should be plenty obvious that these are not Russian parts, but it doesn't hurt anything either. You could use a hand electric engraver, a series of center punch marks, or even scratch it in with an awl if you wanted. I still need to paint these, but you get the general idea.

[Combat Controller]

As for the ACE conversion, I think I like this adapter block the best, at least for the Saiga.

I've got this one: http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/saig ... p-478.html

If I were to use an AR stock, I'd get the block with the built in AR adapter; otherwise this one or the one you linked are the blocks to get. I may end up converting to an AR stock anyway, to give an adjustable length of pull; as this is our home defense shotgun, and both my wife and I need to be able to use it.

Also, with AR type recoil absorbing stocks available (we loved the Knoxx SpecOps stocks recoil reducing feature for our sidewinder), that might be a good choice.

Dang it, trying to order them, but I see both of yours but the data on the site is sparse. Do they both fold?

[Combat Controller]

Thanks, but I am afraid your answer didn't help. I have an ACE AK stock, it looks like it will fit the two linked. Do either of those fold or do I need a different adapter? Currently it has a folding Tapco on it, but it is monolithic.

[Fill]

I don't think either are folders, but FWIW, the ACE folding mechanism on my PTR is the bee's knees.

[Fill]

would this one from Ace work? the bolt pattern looks the same.
http://riflestocks.com/store/page19.html

[Combat Controller]

Ah ha! Thanks, my google fu was weak today. Must be allergies. Now I know what I need to order. I'm going to roam around on that other site and look for the adapter as well. Mississippi Auto Arms has fucked me in the past and I hope they are not the only supplier right now. Otherwise I will have to hold my breath.