lever action for rimless cartridges

[DwightG]

I see no reason why a rimless would be any more difficult to accomodate than rimmed as far as feeding goes. In rifle cartridges, I suspect the preponderance of rimmed cartridges chambered in rifles with tubular magazines has more to do with the vintage of the design/cartridge than anything. Rimless cartridges tend to be more modern and therefore more likely to have been originally loaded with spitzer bullets and as a result not compatible with tube magazines. A rimless cartridge of proper intensity for the action loaded with flat/RN bullets should be just as easy to feed as a similar dimension rimmed one IMO.

Aegis, the .45LC vs .45ACP difference is a function of case volume rather than rimmed vs. rimless. The .45LC, being originally a black powder ctg., is a lot bigger so can be loaded hotter in an action strong enough to handle it.

[eocoolj]

Aegis, the .45LC vs .45ACP difference is a function of case volume rather than rimmed vs. rimless. The .45LC, being originally a black powder ctg., is a lot bigger so can be loaded hotter in an action strong enough to handle it.

I mentioned .45 ACP vs LC in the OP because, if I'm not mistaken, ACP was designed to roughly duplicate the ballistics of the Long Colt at that time. Of course, today, LC can be loaded to much higher pressures and exceeds the potential of the ACP.

[Jericho941]

I seem to remember reading somewhere, though, that if you're going to try and do that with a .45LC you might as well go up to a .454, because the .45 might wear out your gun fast. Something about the case size being inefficient, or something.

[First Shirt]

The .45 Colt can be loaded to four different levels, depending on what gun you're going to use it in.

Level I is for the old, black-powder frame Colts (first generation)
Level II is for the newer Colts, Smiths, etc.
Level III is for Rugers, T/C Contenders, Dan Wesson, and Freedom Arms.
Level IV is for lever guns, Encores, etc.

At least, that's the way Ken Waters breaks it down in his Pet Loads book, and it makes a lot of sense, to me.

I've been using the Level III loads in my Vaqueros, with great success, and have noticed no sign of increased wear. They are actually more accurate now than when I first started using these loads.

[Aegis]

Aegis, the .45LC vs .45ACP difference is a function of case volume rather than rimmed vs. rimless. The .45LC, being originally a black powder ctg., is a lot bigger so can be loaded hotter in an action strong enough to handle it.

I was just noting the fact that, from what I've seen, most rimmed cases have a bit larger case capacity than their rimless counterparts. Same basic thing, said in perhaps an unclear manner. I apologize for the confusion.

[Netpackrat]

I think the reason why most of the traditional lever action cartridges are rimmed, is because that was what worked at the time they were invented. Case in point, the .45 Colt was strictly a handgun cartridge back in the day, because its little bitty rim led to inconsistent extraction. Nowadays, there are several lever guns available in that caliber. What has changed is modern manufacturing; the brass is better, the guns are better, and everything is just made to more consistent tolerances and stronger overall. What was a problem 100+ years ago, is no big deal now, which is why we have seen more rimless cartridges in the traditional tube magazine lever gun in recent years. We may decry the loss of old technology, hand fitted methods of manufacturing, but the fact is that the CNC machines just do a more repeatable job of things. My Marlin's action probably isn't as tight and smooth as one made 100 years ago, but dimensionally the new guns are closer to each other than the old ones were, and the brass is also more consistent, regardless of manufacturer (though some bad ones do slip through). As a result, they can build my .450 and know it will work no matter which lot of ammo from which manufacturer I am using.

[DwightG]

So, I conclude from all this that what's needed is a lever gun that will interchangeably fire .45ACP and .45LC....and have about 20-30 rd mag capacity in a box mag.....and, what the heck, a .22 conversion unit with it.... oh yeah, and take-down.

I'm sure you can all see the obvious line of reasoning that led to this conclusion

[Aegis]

Oh, naturally. I want two.

[Whirlibird]

C.E.Harris did a really cute custom 1894 Marlin in .45 ACP back @1980 for American Rifleman.
I have the article around, for some unknown reason....

The only real issue is the inability to load ball ammo in the magazine.

If one were wanting to convert a levergun fairly easily, I'd look at a .357 LC 1873 to start with.
Take the barrel off and sell it.
Pick up a .45 LC barrel, set it back and rechamber to .45 ACP. Take a .44 Mag/.44/40 magazine tube and fit it to the barrel.
Punch out the front of the lifter for the .45 ACP cartridge, just far enough back to deal with the longest flat point you're gonna use. There are aftermarket aluminum lifters available.


But my 336 in .35 Remington works fine with rimless ammo. Might be a bit smoother than most rimmed cartridges also.

[DwightG]

The only real issue is the inability to load ball ammo in the magazine.

Was that due to bullet nose configuration or some other issue? I would think that .45ACP ball ammo being pretty blunt nosed combined with a low recoil impulse would make in-magazine detonation a non-problem. Was that the concern?