Reliability vs. Accuracy

[randy]

Pretty much what everyone else has said.

For a carry gun, reliability is the ONLY factor that matters.

Would he trust his life and that of his family to a fire extinguisher that only operates 2/3 of the time? Seatbelts? Parachutes?

For accuracy, a carry piece only has to be good enough for Minute of Goblin, Anything beyond that is gravy, and attempting to improve on that at the expense of reliability is, quite frankly, suicidal.

Once the piece is as reliable as is practical and attains Minute of Goblin, obsessing on trivial factors such as appearance and "tightness" show me the individual is not well educated in the concepts of defensive shooting, or is not taking the issue seriously and should stay with playing with shootable toys on the firing range.

You may not be able to educate him, but if he keeps pushing on the trivial at the expense of the mandatory, then let him walk (easy for me to say I know since it's not my livelihood). Tell him you don't want to have to read about him in the obituaries some day and know you let him hit the street with an unreliable weapon, and that you hope he survives the experience that finally proves to him how wrong he is.

[SeekHer]

"A shoddy workman always blames his tools!"

With the likes of Chris's gun, what would then be his excuse?

[Darrell]

What's the rule of thumb, the first 90% will cost X, the last 10% will cost 10X?

[Lokidude]

As I read this, I've got my primary carry gun on my desk. It's a PA-63, the bluing is worn through in oh-so-many places, it's not pretty by any means. But it's dead-on reliable, every time I pull the trigger. If I feed it good ammo, I can get under 3" at 10 yards, which is plenty good for what I'm using it for. It's the tradeoff I made, and make every day that I holster this sidearm on my hip.

[HTRN]

I've got two, and both cost more than $3000. Both were handbuilt by world class master 1911 smiths, and took several months to complete.

Let me guess, they're smaller, but not that much, right? Getting a 1911 to put 5 into a 1" circle at 50 yards is whole other story, when talk turns to Accurails and such. It's also pointless in a carry gun, because outside of a Ransom Rest, the average shooter isn't going to get anywhere near that.


HTRN

[slowpoke]

Rule #1 of consulting:

Make the customer tell you no. If the customer asks you to do something you don't want to do
then tell them "Yes, but it will cost $$$$." Then make that cost high enough that if they do say
yes to you you're making enough money to deal with the crap. I would suggest telling that
customer. Well yes you can get a tight accurate dead reliable 1911. I said you
can't since most people aren't willing to pay the $10,000 and 6-12 month lead time for
a basic no frills model. let him go and change his mind. If he doesn't then you can make $5K-$7k
to deal with him.

Oh and rule #2 is if the customer isn't listening to you, you're not charging enough money.
If you charge them enough, they'll listen to what you tell them and believe it. Because, hey
you pay me $$$$ and I am telling you the truth, If you don't want to do it my way it will take
longer and cost more $$$$ but you're choice.

[HTRN]

Then make that cost high enough that if they do say
yes to you you're making enough money to deal with the crap.

In Jobshop parlance, it's called the "grief tax".


HTRN

[Lokidude]

Then make that cost high enough that if they do say
yes to you you're making enough money to deal with the crap.

In Jobshop parlance, it's called the "grief tax".


HTRN

In sales, we call it a "Go away" bid. Same way I price my after-hours services. I'm plenty willing to show up, if you're willing to pay my rate. And it starts at $50, just to unlock the doors.

[martini]

I would like a bit more than minute of goblin. And guess what, I have it in a stock XD40 Subcompact, with concentration I can get sub 4" groups at 50 feet. Not stellar and I am sure others can do better. However, I am sure that if I do my part I can put a round very close to where I want it, with a very reliable package, I can't remember the last time I had a ftf or fte, and I have never had ftf. I would love to get a 1911, but I don't know I will ever carry one. I don't think anyone will ever make this customer happy.

[308Mike]

You guys are working at this too hard.

You CAN have tight AND reliable - get him into a REVOLVER. My 586 is nice and tight, doesn't wiggle or rattle and goes BOOM EVERY DAMN TIME I pull the trigger. No stovepipies, no failures to feed, no failures to eject - what's not to like??

Otherwise, I'd rather have one go BOOM when needed than punch holes in paper at distances I'll never use in a self-defense scenario. Remind him the VAST majority of all gun fights occurs within 12 feet. I wouldn't be too worried about accuracy at that range.