The Tactical Bolt Action - a Technical Discussion.

[SoupOrMan]

Then again, I'm still waiting for the Holland & Holland folks to stop laughing and give me a quote on the 20" H&H Manor Defence Shotgun in 12 gauge, too.

The "Sporting" O/U or the Round Action S/S start at £38,500...Although they prefer to build them with 25"/64cm barrels as the shortest length they have built then shorter especially in double rifle configurations where 24"/61cm are standard...

I wouldn't even think they'd look once, much less twice, at a side-by-side set up for a coach gun to outfit your Silver Ghost.

[SeekHer]

I was thinking of this thread more along the lines of the Cooper Scout concept.

Tactical Bolt Action as all around tool - for work from in-house smackdown to taking down someone at real rifle distances. You'd want a good sized magazine capacity, or fast reloadability with stripper clips, lightweight to have with you, and real toughness.....

Kind of like this?
It's a little heavier than Cooper's ideal specs, but that's OK for me, the extra weight helps with recoil.

Damn but that's sweet...you did a great job on it!

It always puzzled me why Cooper went with the Steyr for his scout rifle when they wouldn't make magazines for it of more then 5 rounds? He could have gone with any number of other makers who had larger capacity mags or just gone the route of V-Bull or Pierce bottom metal and say a Springfield mag...It certainly limited his capacity portion of the ideal rifle...

[AZMARK]

This is, again, an example of what my long range 6K gun will look like…

?????, I know you've mentioned shooting at 1-2k on your farm, but that distance is getting serious!
I take that this when the ballistic software becomes required equipment, not just something to play with on a PC.

[SeekHer]

Do you know the difference between a F-Class rifle and a military and in many cases a police, sniper rifle? No, I mean this! I’m asking because I can’t find any difference (excluding some caliber choices) and would like to know…

Only differences I've seen are minor variations of stocks and the military/police shoot off bi-pods, where as F-Class are using an adjustable front rest.

You see I can't...they're all using stocks like the McMillan A4 or A5 or variations by other makers…Oh, and F-Class can be shot off a bipod as well...Which is why I've used the comparison from a military tactical rifle to them because there is no difference, really! Sure there may be variances like barrel or action makers or caliber and choice of optics but place one next to the other and they’re similar in style and intent…

International F-Class
The targets and course of fire may vary from range to range but the International F Class rules will generally apply to equipment. Briefly:
1. Any rifle up to a maximum weight of 22lbs or 10kg. including scope (and bi-pod if used). Any safe trigger is permitted; muzzle brakes are not.
2. Any sights – no limit on power.
3. Any calibre up to 8mm – providing that it complies with range safety rules – it is up to the individual shooter to verify this.
4. The rifle may be supported front and rear on sand-bags. The front sand-bag may in turn be supported on an adjustable pedestal. The rear bag must not be attached to the front support but a combination of sandbags may be used. A bi-pod may be used in place of a front sand-bag.

[SeekHer]

?????, I know you've mentioned shooting at 1-2k on your farm, but that distance is getting serious!
I take that this when the ballistic software becomes required equipment, not just something to play with on a PC.

I typed the wrong number there it should be 3KM not 6K...sorry!

Yes...guns like the CheyTac and Barrett’s new .416 all come with ballistic computers, little handheld PDA types as standard equipment...One reason people are pissed at CheyTac (And now Barrett)--they wouldn't sell their programs to people who didn't buy there rifles, like me, and existing software doesn't carry that class of cartridges...

Lately, I'd been shooting at the 3,000 yard targets and trying at the 3,500 for fun as the guns we have now just wont make that 3,750 yard range necessary for the 2 Mile Kill...I mean we've hit it, it's a old cast iron water heater taller then a man but just don't know where it will land as all the bullets we have are way past sub-sonic at that range...

[DougWojtowicz]

It always puzzled me why Cooper went with the Steyr for his scout rifle when they wouldn't make magazines for it of more then 5 rounds? He could have gone with any number of other makers who had larger capacity mags or just gone the route of V-Bull or Pierce bottom metal and say a Springfield mag...It certainly limited his capacity portion of the ideal rifle...

I always wondered about that too. I think it was just a case of "they did it, and named it for me, and it actually is pretty accurate."

Still, five's kind of okay. I'd prefer the Smelly's ten round built-in magazine, though.

Didn't A-W have a neat bolt carbine too? I know less than 20 inches means inefficient powder burning, and it's not going to do 1000 meters, but I'm thinking of something that can be banged about in the back of a pickup truck cab, or kept in a lawful civilian's trunk.

[Captain Wheelgun]

I was thinking of this thread more along the lines of the Cooper Scout concept.

Tactical Bolt Action as all around tool - for work from in-house smackdown to taking down someone at real rifle distances. You'd want a good sized magazine capacity, or fast reloadability with stripper clips, lightweight to have with you, and real toughness.....

Kind of like this?
It's a little heavier than Cooper's ideal specs, but that's OK for me, the extra weight helps with recoil.

Damn but that's sweet...you did a great job on it!...

Thanks, SeekHer. I'm glad you like it, I know how serious Canadians are about their Enfields.

[Netpackrat]

It always puzzled me why Cooper went with the Steyr for his scout rifle when they wouldn't make magazines for it of more then 5 rounds? He could have gone with any number of other makers who had larger capacity mags or just gone the route of V-Bull or Pierce bottom metal and say a Springfield mag...It certainly limited his capacity portion of the ideal rifle...

I always wondered about that too. I think it was just a case of "they did it, and named it for me, and it actually is pretty accurate."

I think it was probably a case of them being willing to put up with him, and build it more or less his way.

[DougWojtowicz]

It always puzzled me why Cooper went with the Steyr for his scout rifle when they wouldn't make magazines for it of more then 5 rounds? He could have gone with any number of other makers who had larger capacity mags or just gone the route of V-Bull or Pierce bottom metal and say a Springfield mag...It certainly limited his capacity portion of the ideal rifle...

I always wondered about that too. I think it was just a case of "they did it, and named it for me, and it actually is pretty accurate."

I think it was probably a case of them being willing to put up with him, and build it more or less his way.

Austria is A LONG WAY AROUND THE GLOBE from Arizona.

Probably made things easier.

And while the CZ 527 carbine in 7.62mm x 39 is not an "accuracy" cartridge, and it'll be wheezing by the time it hits 400 yards, it's got all the good features I'd have thought of in a Scout - good capacity, handy and as light as a rifle can get without punishing recoil, and at self-defense distances, or deer hunting distances, it'll do the job.

But again, I'm thinking of a Chicago-area suburbanite, not someone with lots of God's country around him.

[HTRN]

I've created a monster.

Oookay. lets get started...
Action: CRF or Pushfeed? Both are acceptable, but if I'm building a gun, I'd go with a Pushfeed action, contrary to most here. Why? Simple. You can get really tight Push feed actions, while most CRF are deliberately made on the loose side(Why? because reliabilty trumps accuracy). Let's face it, the Marines have been using Push feed bolt guns for close to 40 years. they've shown themselves to be perfectly acceptable for this role.

Barrel: Longer is better! Any extra FPS you can squeeze out of it, will push the "wall"* that much farther away. 24" at the minimum, 26" is better, especially for magnums. The tradeoff, is that longer barrels are less accurate than shorter barrels, at least in theory(other factors enter into the equation). They're also heavier - a 28" long 1.25" bull barrel weighs 7 pounds. So you want to have a contour where the weight will do the most good, allowing you to maximize the barrel length. Hence my perference for "Palma" contours.

Stocks: Either Composite, or Laminate, which may be a better option as it's "more socially acceptable". My perferred Stock pattern is one of the McMillan A series, because I like vertical grips, palmswells, and beavertail foreends. Joel Russo makes a laminate version of the A5 stock called the "A5L".

Trigger: My overwelming preference is for Jewells, but if you're using an action that he doesn't make a trigger for, places like Rifle Basix, and others may have something suitable.

Glass: My preference is for a variable, around 4-14, because it has some extra magnification, which helps tremendously at long distance. Target knobs are a must. I do like the 40mm over the larger 50mm, because I have extremely high cheekbones, and unless it has an adjustable cheek piece, the 50's tend to be too high to sight well.

Chambering: Let's face it, the number of guys who shoot past 600 yards on a semiregular basis(which is what you have to do - it takes alot of practice to be able to shoot well at that distance) can probably be counted with on one hand. The number that shoot past 1200 yards can be counted on a single digit - Seekher. Shooting at known fixed distances at 1500 yards is hard enough(reading mirage and wind) with uber magX scopes and mechanical rests. Shooting off a bipod with a 16X is worlds harder. For most, I would suggest a .308 Winchester. For those of who can shoot farther, a .300 Win Mag, or .300WSM. Beyond 1200 yards is the territory of the .338 Lapua, and for almost everybody, I'd tell 'em to skip it. I may build one, but then, I like building guns, and can probably unload it for more than I'd have into it.

Accessories: I wholeheartedly recomend the Leica CRF1200. It's not cheap(almost 700 bucks), but it's one of the best rangefinders on the market. It's also water resistant, and compact.

Production rifle: Right now, my two suggestions for a "Production tactical" are the CZ 550 Varmint Laminted and the Savage 12 Varminter. Both are equipped with laminate stocks, with the Savage having a list price about 100 bucks higher than the CZ, but is available in 300 WSM. Both are excellent rifles, and with some "tuneup" will serve nicely. Another option is the now Discontinued Win 70 Coyote.

*"The Wall": The distance where a bullet goes transsonic, where accuracy commonly goes to crap, usually due to the bullet starting to tumble due to shockwaves cause by the transistion. Typically, it's around 800 yards for .308, about 1200 yards for .300 Win Mag/.300WSM, and around 1650 for the .338 Lapua


HTRN