The Gun Counter

Does anyone else (I'm guessing yes) regularly spend time training to fight under really bad circumstances? Like handcuffed, with a weapon that jams after each shot, or completely unarmed?

I was getting set to write a blog post on the topic, and it occurred to me seek input from some others who might do the same thing.

So, what do you do and what are your thoughts?

In cooler weather I do! I really want to get an airsoft now for live training. I have done the handcuff thing and the knife thing plus the usual unarmed combat. Not for a year though, gettting out of shape!

Yes and no.

Unfortunately no one will "play" with me anymore, at least full speed.
The unfortunate part of being the only arrest control instructor for several counties, that no one wants to work outside the box if at all.

The Brazilian martial art, Capoeira was devised by the slave/criminal class down there and is particularly suited to being used while handcuffed in front.

The problem with training to fight in handcuffs in front is that only an idiot handcuffs you in the front. Granted, I can, when cuffed, get my hands out in front of me, but I need a good thirty seconds without anyone trying to stop me. Unless I've been pretty thoroughly searched and shoved in a barren room, I can get out of handcuffs if uninterrupted for quite a bit less than thirty seconds.*

I am curious what you guys actually do, though.

Whirlibird, I suspect I have a pretty good idea what you do, being a fan of arrest/control techniques myself. I'm guessing you also go the extra step of practicing to prevent such things from being done to you. Any insights?

CC, what do you do? Other than the normal unarmed and knife?

One of my favorite drills, can't for the life of me remember what it's called, involves one 'victim' and three or four 'attackers.' In my misspent youth, a few of us enjoyed this so much we did it for PT.. The victim has a weapon which has to be recocked after each shot. Initially we used an M-9 with a training barrel, but, as you'll see, that was a bad idea. Also, you couldn't just cock the hammer, you had to rack the slide or do a failure drill before you could cock it.

Victim/student starts out with weapon holstered and the attackers attempt to surround him, but otherwise show no hostile intent. The student, if smart, attempts to avoid being encircled, but must act as if he doesn't know, only suspects, he is going to be attacked. At a predetermined time, anywhere from thirty seconds to five minutes (and lemme tell ya, that'll fray your nerves), one of the observers says, "Go!" and the attackers go after the victim.

One of the attackers has a rubber knife, the victim doesn't know which one. The unarmed attackers can't strike, but can grapple the victim to the floor, try to take the gun, hold him for the armed attacker to finish off, or, if the knife wielder gets 'shot' pick it up and keep going. The victim, on the other hand, can beat seven hells out of his attackers. The longer we did this, the more and more protective gear the attackers took to wearing. We also had to replace the M-9 with a plastic dart gun, which had to be racked every time, and then wrapped that in padding because guys were getting hit with the weapon, a LOT.

For extra flavor, after someone has done this a few times and survived, add extra knives. Have everyone carry a knife and/or allow everyone to strike the victim. Add more people on both sides, which is awful hazardous as it's a tough drill to control in the first place.

Tell ya what, you do that a few times and you get to see the quietest, most unassuming, passive people turn into rabid, bloodthirsty beasts when attacked. The only way to take down all the attackers is to be hyper aggressive from the word, "Go." The padding is essential because the only way the victim is coming out on top (which tends to be fairly rare at first) is if they learn to strike hard enough to stop a closing attacker, all while moving and readying their weapon. It's a blast...if you don't mind a little bruising, concussions, cracked ribs, that kind of thing. It's also a great way to learn how to fight at close quarters while armed.

*I've had some of my friends in the local and county police as well as base security try to find where I keep my hand cuff keys. Two of them found one of them, the same one both times, but no one found the other one.

I don't know if this contributes to the discussion or not. If not, perhaps one of the bosses will delete.

If you grew up on the South side of Chicago, where I did, you learned some lessons of the street.

I boxed. Fought Golden Gloves. Good lessons learned, and all very fair.

On the street, if you don't go savage, you don't survive.

In my younger days, when I'd be out late, I was mugged three times.

First time, in Lincoln Park, surrounded by about 10-12 punks. I threw down my money and watch (a cheapie in those days), they picked up the goods and walked off.

Second time, on an "L" platform, late at night, dead of winter, waiting for a train. Surrounded by about 6 punks. The classic approach ... one comes forward, cigarette in hand, asking me for a light. (I must interject I have very strong hands.) His associates circle. I had just filled my Zippo. I grabbed his wrist, while burning him with the lighter, and screamed, "I can't light your cigarette if you don't hold still!!" I burned his hand, his face, and set his coat on fire. All his friends ran off. When I let him go, he too ran off.

Third time, walking toward a different "L" station. Suddenly surrounded by about 6-8 punks against a wall.

One moved in. I grabbed him. Had him in a submission hold (ah, Greco-Roman wrestling). His pals started to move in. I popped his arm out of the shoulder. You could have heard the screams for blocks. His friends ran off. I suggested to the twit he find new friends, and a more socially acceptable line of work.

These days I'm kind of slowed down by inflammatory arthritis. It's Chicago, can't carry a gun. (Right) But I can turn my cane into a proctological device that would make my proctologist and gastroenterologist proud.

Actually, your reactions are exactly the kind that drill was supposed to encourage. Most people have a hard time going from alert/less alert/sleeping to hyper violent without a bit of run up. We're all, at least the good guys, as non-violent as possible so reacting properly is a skill most have to work at.

Hell, that's the single most important element of self defense. The proper mentality. Certainly a worthwhile contribution to the topic.

Bob K, it sounds to me like you were only mugged once!

Bob K wrote:I don't know if this contributes to the discussion or not. If not, perhaps one of the bosses will delete.

I grabbed his wrist, while burning him with the lighter, and screamed, "I can't light your cigarette if you don't hold still!!" I burned his hand, his face, and set his coat on fire. All his friends ran off. When I let him go, he too ran off.

Oh, I think you contributed just fine.

Gotta admit, I never thought of lighting someone on fire. Bet that learned him a lesson.

Hmm... sounds like a good reason to always carry my cigar torch... Sports are a good way to learn to embrace violence -- obviously martial arts will teach you how to direct that violence, but once you learn to break a man's body, and not feel bad about it, I think you've learned one of the more important skills in life...