Good HD Gun(s) For Apartment

[skb12172]

OK, it's been awhile since we've hashed out something like this. Let's put a different spin on it. You live in a newly constructed (crap materials) apartment building in an urban setting. Kind of like a college dorm, as far as proximity to neighbors, etc.

It is also a high burglary/crime area, as are most densely populated, urban shitholes. What gun(s) do you choose? I'm speaking of long as well as hand guns, here.

FIRE AWAY!

[Aaron]

I'd say frangible or hollow points in .45 (ACP no Long colt) would likely not have too much danger of over penetrating. For long guns, I imagine rifles are right out unless you use frangible, but there's plenty of low penetration shot shells out there.

[Bob K]

skb,

I pretty much live in your described scenario, except that my building is 100+ years old.

HD pistols are .45 ACP, 9mm, and .38 Special, all loaded with hollow points, to minimize penetration.

Long gun is a Rem 870, loaded with #2 birdshot ... slightly smaller than #4 buck, a little less penetration, and in court I can always say, "Your Honor, it was just bird shot."

[skb12172]

Interesting. #2 Birdshot? I ask this completely out of ignorance, but...

Does that have enough "oomph" on the business end to say "Bye Bye Bad Guy?"


It's just that I've always considered Birdshot, well, for the birds! Sorry, had to say it.

If it's a viable apartment defense load, then that's welcome news. Please elaborate.

[Bob K]

skb,

Go to any reference work, Cartridges of the World, whatever, and compare #4 Buck to #2 Bird. You will be enlightened. Mine just aren't handy at the moment.

[SeekHer]

Bob, I'd use #BB as my lowest sole pellet but I love the mix of #2 buck filled with #2 bird...

American Diameter # Pellets
Sizes..... (inches).....per oz.

Buck
0000 buck….0.380……...04
000 buck…...0.360.…....06.25
00 buck….....0.330….....08.13 - Mass for penetration but few pellets for density of pattern
0 buck.…......0.320..…...09
1 buck…..... 0.300….. 10.6
2 buck…..... 0.270….. 12.5
3 buck…..... 0.250….. 18
4 buck…..... 0.240….. 20.3 - Half again as many to more then triple the number of #00 pellets

Transitional
F…............. 0.220….. 28.1
TT………… .... 0.210….. 29.5
T…............. 0.200….. 31.3
BBB…......... 0.190….. 43.8 - These four are damned hard to find but makes excellent CQC HD loads

Bird
BB…........... 0.180….. 46.5
B…............. 0.170….. 50
1……………....0.160….... 70.8
2……………....0.150….... 93.8 - Absolutely the lowest you should go for CQC HD loads
3……………....0.140……113
4……………....0.130……130
5……………....0.120…..255
5½…..…..…..0.115…..300
6……………....0.110…..337
7……………....0.100…..422
7½…..…..…..0.095…..525
8……………....0.090…..615
8½…..…..…..0.085…..745
9……………....0.080…..877
10……………..0.070…..1933
11…………....0.060…..2922
12…………....0.050…..3960

EDIT
To add #5 and smaller and to emphasis the various pellets

[Dub_James]

It's just that I've always considered Birdshot, well, for the birds! Sorry, had to say it.

Should be fine if the burglar is a woman

[cu74]

For what it's worth - I've never had to use a shotgun for indoor social work - my minimum 12 gauge load is #4 buck. I've read stuff about ER doctors commenting on the bleeding "problems" with "patients" who were shot with bird shot. My home defense goals do not include affording the perp the opportunity of taking a taxpayer-paid ambulance ride.....

[308Mike]

My choice(s) in that scenario would be 12-gauge pump and handguns shooting large caliber bullets starting with the number 4 and/or a .357 Magnum.

While over penetration is not good, not stopping a goblin you just shot/shot at is MUCH worse. If you have to use it in anger or fear, you life and survival is already on the line.

I'd much rather be alive to receive a lawsuit from a neighbor who was injured when I shot a rapist to death who was going after my wife than not be alive to get sued.

Make sure you look at this with the correct perspective.

[Dedicated_Dad]

I'm VERY Fond of my KT Sub-2k carbine. They come in .40 or 9mm, and interchange mags with various pistols so be sure you get one to match your favorite sidearm. I have a Sig 229, but 226 mags work so that's what I got for all my extra mags which are stored with the carbine.

.40 out of the 16" Bbl is - if I recall correctly - hitting at 100 yards with the power of a .38 at point-blank. The carbine has obvious advantages over a pistol, and can fold to fit in a standard briefcase but still deploy in a couple of seconds.

I keep mine folded, mag inserted with the bolt locked back, and worked on the latch a bit so I can just "pop" it without having to grab the latch. I've practiced enough that I can snap it straight with my left-hand, and slap the bolt with my right as I'm raising it to my shoulder with my left and reaching for the pistol-grip. I go from folded to fire in under 1.5 seconds - not bad for something so concealable.

The only downside is that the damn thing kicks like a mule for what it is - the stock isn't exactly shoulder-friendly for a pistol-caliber, so get in the habit of tucking in hard...

DD