.38 special LRN as a defensive round

[skb12172]

My dad is 78 years old. He is comfortable using what he knows and thinks if it ain't broke, you shouldn't fix it.

He carries a .357 magnum, yet loads it with .38 LRN. Apparently, the LRN bullet was a popular choice for law enforcement and self defense in decades past.

Just as a Colt Peacemaker can kill a man just as dead as the latest plastic fantastic, I'm sure this remains an adequate round since it was the main choice of many for so long.

Still, are there any serious downsides to his carry of the LRN? Should I be trying harder to convince him to "get with the times?" Thanks.

[Aglifter]

About the only thing I would suggest differently is to try some semi wadcutters, loaded backwards -- Buffalo Bore makes a nice variety of 38 loads.

[First Shirt]

My daughter's first carry gun was a stainless J-frame .38 snubbie, and her carry load was hollow-based wadcutters, loaded upside down over a brisk charge of Bullseye powder. Worked remarkably well, at 7 yards or less.

[Whirlibird]

.38 LRN

Serious downsides?
Even NYPD finally got away from the LRN in the 80's.
It overpenetrates.
It produces a pencil sized hole through the target imparting little energy.
It was effective in police shootings around 50% of the time.

Here's a link to the Nat'l Criminal Justice Reference System and a short abstract. It's from the FBI from way back in 1975 and we've come forward light years in ammunition since then.

Pretty much ANY hollow point jacketed or otherwise is a better choice.
While the LWC has it's proponants it's street results mirror those of the LRN. Abysmal.

Look for something like these.
Remington 158gr LHP +P
or
Speer 135gr +P, what has become the "snubbie" load for many users.

Addendum, the HBWC loaded backwards expands nicely to @.750" even at moderate velocities but unless a gas check is used you are risking blow through and sticking the bullet in the barrel. Also they are not accurate in many weapons past 7Y and will often be tumbling long before that.

[cu74]

If you were to buy a box of the Speer or Remington hollow points that Whirlybird suggested, would your dad be likely to use them? If so, I'd suggest spending a few bucks to upgrade his defenses.

[randy]

I'd recommend he go with the "FBI" aka "Chicago" load: 158gr Lead Semi-wadcutter hollowpoint (LSWCHP) at +P velocities. Very comfortable to shoot in a .357MAG.

The theory is that at +P velocities the lead hollowpoint will expand reliably while a JHP needs higher velocities in order to perform well.

It's what I've got stocked for serious social work in my S&W Model 19. As a bonus, 158gr LSWC bullets are (or were) easy and relatively cheap, and hand loading to matching velocities for practice ammo is easy and forgiving.

I've heard of the LRNs referred to as widow makers by old time cops, and the term was not related to it's terminal performance in a goblin.

[Combat Controller]

I carry the Federal Hydra shok in lots of, 38's and all my phonebook testing years back showed it was a pretty decent round. Just be careful of the purported "low recoil" federal hydra shok .357 load. It is so hot it flows primers and has the highest recoil impulse of ANY .357 load I have ever fired. I called in my batch numbers looking for a refund, Federal says all is normative, even after send in the remaining ammo. Multiple purchases afterward confirm how hot it is....

[The Quiet Man]

Just be careful of the purported "low recoil" federal hydra shok .357 load. It is so hot it flows primers and has the highest recoil impulse of ANY .357 load I have ever fired

+1

Those "low recoil" hydra shocks had the worst recoil of any 357 load I've ever tried. I don't know where they get off labeling them as low recoil...that's some damn false advertising there. Muzzle flash was horrendous as well.

I wouldn't use a LRN for defense though. Although Buffalo Bore is rather expensive, they make an excellent LSWCHP in .38 spl +p that should preform as a real sweetheart for personal defense...especially if your dad is traditionalist who likes to see real lead sticking out of that cartridge case.

[martini]

My 38 snubbie is loaded with Hornady XTP's 125 Grain +p. It is definitely a handful in the air weight but I have no doubt of what will happen on the other end.

[morsetaper]

I'd recommend he go with the "FBI" aka "Chicago" load: 158gr Lead Semi-wadcutter hollowpoint (LSWCHP) at +P velocities. Very comfortable to shoot in a .357MAG.


I've heard of the LRNs referred to as widow makers by old time cops, and the term was not related to it's terminal performance in a goblin.

'Zackly. I do have a few hundred 110gr. XTP's loaded up that I think will expand, just as a backup. Anybody have any experience with such a projectile in .38/.357 mag.?