Home defense in non-permissive environments...

The place to talk about personal defense, preparedness, and survival; both armed and unarmed.
Post Reply
User avatar
Yogimus
Posts: 4922
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:32 am

Re: Home defense in non-permissive environments...

Post by Yogimus »

The problem with a percussive tool over an activated one is human nature. It is MUCH easier (subconsciously) to pull a trigger than to deliver an effective blow, or even a stab. Human nature will not allow you to harm someone, unless you specifically train for it. As such, I can not recommend a bat or a knife. You will pull your punches, and you will only have MAYBE one good swing before you lose control of the situation.

Something that requires only activation, like pepper spray, or a firearm, is much easier to use.
User avatar
randy
Posts: 8354
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:33 pm
Location: EM79VQ

Re: Home defense in non-permissive environments...

Post by randy »

Highspeed wrote:
skb12172 wrote:A Little League bat is a perfect sized bludgeon.
We call them 'rounders bats' in the UK. Pretty much useless in untrained hands, you also need a wide arc to swing them in to get any force behind the blow. If the threat has their back or side to you then no problemo.

If I had a dollar for every time I saw someone attempt to win a fight with one of those things and instead get it taken off them on the second or third missed swing....I'd have about 12 dollars :lol:
In fine internet tradition, I will now make an argument based on a YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL0ipXUD ... re=related

It does have have a classic line in it, if nothing else
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
User avatar
JAG2955
Posts: 3044
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:21 pm

Re: Home defense in non-permissive environments...

Post by JAG2955 »

I know that when my dad was growing up in 1940s Lancaster PA, he said that he and his aunt would dump kerosene on guys trying to break in the house. They'd hold a kerosene lantern where the perp could see it, and by the time they smelled what was on them and did the quick math, they would beat a fast retreat. Not sure how well it would work today.

How about a nice decorative (but functional) tomahawk that was a gift from a dear friend, so she'll never get rid of it?
User avatar
Netpackrat
Posts: 14007
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:04 pm

Re: Home defense in non-permissive environments...

Post by Netpackrat »

IANAL, but I think it would be good to choose something that you can explain as having some other purpose for being there, like a fire extinguisher, that got pressed into service for defense in the need of the moment, rather than something kept handy for the express purpose of defense. On another group I am on, somebody was actually recommending keeping wasp spray handy, but I think you'd have a harder time explaining that you just happened to grab that, rather than were keeping it in your living room/entry for the purpose.

Ultimately the best answer is to not live someplace where you can't use a firearm for home/self defense.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
User avatar
Denis
Posts: 6570
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:29 am

Re: Home defense in non-permissive environments...

Post by Denis »

randy wrote: In fine internet tradition, I will now make an argument based on a YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL0ipXUD ... re=related
Thank you. May I have two minutes of my life back now, please?

OK, There was a single good move - someone used a bat for a jab, instead of swinging it. Let's say one minute, forty-nine seconds 8-)
User avatar
Erik
Posts: 3426
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:36 pm

Re: Home defense in non-permissive environments...

Post by Erik »

I've heard that wasp spray thing before. To me it sounds stupid on so many levels, they're not very powerful and wont reach more than two feet, so you would basically have to pin the attacker down while you spray them to get any kind of effect, and even then I don't think you'd do much actual damage, probably less than if you beat them with the can. Anyone know if I'm wrong and that it might actually work?

I've read once that a big rule for undercover agents is "have a story and a reason to be there", and I think that makes sense for self defense as well. Don't use anything that's illegal or gives the impression that you got it in preparation to defend yourself. Have a story about it, and a reason for it being there. If you have a bunch of swords hanging on the wall, you should be a sword collector and know a lot about them. If you have a baseball bat by the door, you should be playing once in a while. Anything you use for self defense should have a different primary purpose that you actually use it for. I used to go fishing with friends in some places that could get sketchy at night, and everyone always had gaffs to get the fish with, small bats to kill them, and knives to clean them. I know the police showed up a few times just to check out what they were doing, but they were never once questioned about the gear.
So I'd get something that I wouldn't even have to explain, because anyone seeing it would just assume there was a reason for it being there.

Btw, I think the same thing goes for firearms. If I was allowed to have them for self defense, then I'd practice with it once in a while, use a suitable gun (for instance, I'd personally stay away from carrying a gold plated gun unless I was a jeweler and would avoid the big Desert Eagle unless I was in bear country), and wouldn't go around bragging about how I "can't wait to blast someone trying to rob me".
Or have a really good story. A while back, some guys tried to invade the home of an old couple living out in the woods here. The old guy had a loaded hunting rifle under the bed and chased them out. Since you're not allowed to store guns like that, he was asked why he did. He said it was hunting season, and the game often came into shooting distance from his bedroom window, so his house was his hunting blind and he was hunting 24/7. It was a good enough story that the police let it drop.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid."
John Wayne
User avatar
HTRN
Posts: 12403
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:05 am

Re: Home defense in non-permissive environments...

Post by HTRN »

Termite wrote:What about bear spray?
Bear spray IS pepper spray.
And oh, most of the other nonlethal defense items like mace and Tasers are a nono. A possible alternative is one of the bug killers, sprayed in the face. Over the counter, no questions asked, and is murder on the eyes and sensitive tissue like sinuses.

A sword may get her a weapons charge, even in her own house if she's forced to use it. a bat is a better idea.

A pocketful of sand(to throw in the face), a fist load of some sort(the classic is a roll of quarters, However, a large carabiner hooked to her keys would probably work pretty good.
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat

Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt
User avatar
Netpackrat
Posts: 14007
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:04 pm

Re: Home defense in non-permissive environments...

Post by Netpackrat »

I'm sure kitty would enjoy having a good sized scratching post (say, 4 or 5 feet tall) near the door, so she can look out the window. Were I to build something like this, I would probably use a nice, solid 4x4 post, covered with carpet, and have it socket into a separate base that is bolted/screwed to the floor. It should pull right out of the base, with only gravity holding it in. A couple of platforms for kitty to sit on, conveniently located to serve as handholds would be a good feature.

Hell, knowing me, I would probably build the damn thing out of steel, and find some way to cover it with carpet. Or at least have the bottom of the post that goes into the socket capped with steel. You know, to make it easily disassembleable in case you have to move.... :twisted:
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
User avatar
Netpackrat
Posts: 14007
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:04 pm

Re: Home defense in non-permissive environments...

Post by Netpackrat »

Another thought is if you have a fireplace, there are all sorts of associated tools that you will need to have around. Pokers, a hatchet for splitting kindling, hell, chunks of firewood... I bet one of those slings used to tote logs would leave a mark, suitably loaded and slung.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
User avatar
Netpackrat
Posts: 14007
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:04 pm

Re: Home defense in non-permissive environments...

Post by Netpackrat »

I'm kind of on a roll now...

You could buy one of these for display, and then give "him" a halberd or something to hold.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
Post Reply