No-Knock Warrant in NJ = 4 Cops Shot, 2 Seriously

[308Mike]

There are many, many options which don't involve busting in at oh-dark-thirty, and all of them lessen the odds of getting the wrong house, all of them lessen the odds of killing someone.

There it is - but they ALL involve more planning and intelligence than just busting down a door using federally-grant-funded-and-provided crime fighting dollars for the "War on Drugs" and allowing them to justify their fancy toys and all that Special High-Intensity Training which they attend on a regular basis - after all, these are skills which fade with time and have to be kept up so they are always "on-edge" when they respond.

If they can no longer justify these expenses, they just might have to go back to either being a defective (Detective) or a beat cop with no extra-special-bitchin'-status when the "dick measuring" comes up at promotion time.

The times they REALLY need to use "no-knock"warrants are really not as frequent as they make it seem - especially considering they used to go after these same assholes years ago without all that protective gear and although more officers got injured, FAR fewer innocent people got killed in mistaken police raids, FAR fewer innocent people got their property destroyed, FAR fewer innocent people their pets shot and killed, FAR fewer innocent people's neighbors and their friends harassed, and the police were MUCH more part of the community instead of behaving as if they were a special class of people ABOVE the community.

What's interesting is I haven't seen this same tactic used to take down any suspected terrorists - perhaps because they might shoot back??

[randy]

This ninja crap is out of control.

Actually, that's an insult to ninjas. If they were really using ninja tactics, the suspect wouldn't know anything was going on until he woke up in his own bed, already handcuffed.

But quiet use of stealth, cunning and guile doesn't look as cool on COPS, and don't support as many toys to buy when applying for grants.

Sidenote. I once pissed off several criminal justice students hoping to become cops when I told them if they wanted to run around with all that "cool" stuff on kicking in doors, they needed to get their asses down to the recruiting office and sign up for SF, Force Recon, SEALS, or AF Spec Ops, and learn how to do it from the real professionals.

Strange how I wasn't too popular with the younger (just out of high school) students, but got along fine with older students (many of them vets and/or working police officers themselves) and the faculty.

[308Mike]

Strange how I wasn't too popular with the younger (just out of high school) students, but got along fine with older students (many of them vets and/or working police officers themselves) and the faculty.

Where the tires meet the pavement???

[HTRN]

Private sales are completely legal in jersey. All that's needed to sell a long gun is an FID card and ID(drivers license), and a (purchasing)permit added for handguns.

Yup. Of course, you may have to wait a year to get that purchase order depending on where you live. And as of December 1st, the one gun a month law kicks in, which will virtually eliminate handgun sales in NJ, as it also applies to dealers.


HTRN


HTRN

[MarkD]

Netpackrat: This was in NJ, there are no private sales of firearms. All sales go thru a dealer.

Private sales are completely legal in jersey. All that's needed to sell a long gun is an FID card and ID(drivers license), and a (purchasing)permit added for handguns.

And a NJer (me) learns something new.

[TheIrishman]

Yup. Of course, you may have to wait a year to get that purchase order depending on where you live. And as of December 1st, the one gun a month law kicks in, which will virtually eliminate handgun sales in NJ, as it also applies to dealers.

HTRN

Heard that rumor too a but few FFLs have debunked it. The state has no idea what pistols dealers buy as they are transferred through the federal license. As to the year wait, I'm not worried as the captain who handles the permits in my little burg lives 3 houses away and is not an A$$. Even with one gun a month you can still apply for 3 permits at a time as they are good for 90 days.

[HTRN]

Heard that rumor too a but few FFLs have debunked it.

O rly ?

You'll note that Evan Nappen(mentioned in the second link), the guy who knows more about NJ's gun laws than anybody(INCLUDING the state police) has pointed out that there is no exception to the 1 gun a month limit for dealers/customers, only to LEOs, antique collectors and transactions between retailers.

So a dealer could only sell 1 gun a month to a customer(not individually, but TOTAL), but could sell all the handguns he wants to other dealers.

<EDIT>From Nappens Website</EDIT>


HTRN

[Aglifter]

When Officer Friendly turns into the neighborhood Cossack, a few things start to happen... A) like the ghetto, no one talks to the police anymore -- this ends up being very bad for society. B) People watch cops die instead of help. Maybe there aren't that many departments that have had LEOs saved by private citizens -- TX DOT has, and has always strongly supported citizens having arms -- as have the sheriffs that I know, again, because back-up is more likely to be a rancher than another LEO.

IMO, I understand why there have to be traffic cops, but otherwise, we need sheriffs and deputies to investigate crimes/operate jails -- none of the rest really achieve much for society, except convince a few fools that they don't need to be armed.

[Dedicated_Dad]

When Officer Friendly turns into the neighborhood Cossack, a few things start to happen... A) like the ghetto, no one talks to the police anymore -- this ends up being very bad for society. B) People watch cops die instead of help...

Winnar!

Once Upon A Time, people saw the nice Officer as the guy to turn to when you had problems. Even if you screwed up - provided you weren't a crap-bag - he was more likely to try to HELP you than HURT you.

Somewhere along the line, things changed. From "To Serve And Protect" to "To Enforce The Law." From "Peace" to "Law Enforcement" Officer. This more than anything - I think - illustrates the tremendous gulf between then and now...

DD

[308Mike]

When Officer Friendly turns into the neighborhood Cossack, a few things start to happen... A) like the ghetto, no one talks to the police anymore -- this ends up being very bad for society. B) People watch cops die instead of help...

Winnar!

Once Upon A Time, people saw the nice Officer as the guy to turn to when you had problems. Even if you screwed up - provided you weren't a crap-bag - he was more likely to try to HELP you than HURT you.

Somewhere along the line, things changed. From "To Serve And Protect" to "To Enforce The Law." From "Peace" to "Law Enforcement" Officer. This more than anything - I think - illustrates the tremendous gulf between then and now...

DD

And MUCH of the mind-set goes along with the labeling. I might sound nuts, but I GUARANTEE it has a BIG impact.