When Seconds Count: Stopping Active Killers

[mekender]

as someone that spends time every weekday in a classroom, i would dare say that even non-officers could provide valuable resistance in some cases.

when i am in class, i like everyone else am a sitting duck... no amount of preparation can completely eliminate that fact. legislatively i am reduced to using objects that were not designed as weapons to resist. textbooks, calculators and desks are simply inadequate for offensive or defensive weapons, especially when the opponent has a firearm.

some might say that innocents will get in the way and get hit, but the plain fact is, in the historical cases, hesitation costs lives.

frankly if it comes down to a situation where a room full of people stay alive at the cost of one innocent, it is simple to draw the logical conclusion as to what the desirable outcome is.

the fact of the matter is, i am no more dangerous while i am carrying than i am when i am sleeping, driving or swimming in a pool. Because it makes no logical sense that i have to be disarmed and unable to react once i cross the property line to my school.

[Aglifter]

I'm trying to find an appropriate way to describe the faith the GFWs put in stickers...

So far all I've come up w. is "Church of the Holy Sticker"

[Whirlibird]

I can say that out in the sticks, the "active shooter" scenario is one we have spent a considerable amount of time discussing/training for.

Considering that there is a whole 14 LE professionals (if everybody's at full staff) in my county, the chance of getting more than a pair of LEO's to make entry is almost non-existant.

Worse yet, we seldom get the chance to cross-train so any combined operation is gonna be a MCF.

And what is the nature of the problem?
Columbine style situation?
Pissed off ex-spouse going to pick up the kids and someone gets in the way? (Active shooter quickly becomes hostage situation?)
There's an infinate number of situations that apply.

The "diamond" formation is nigh on ideal for high speed, low drag-S&D but garbage for actual searching, you need too many people to back you and cover where you have been. Adapt and improvise. And you need 4 people, do you have that many?

The current style in vogue for the A.S. situation is to grab a longgun and head for the killing.
If you have enough people for a team, great. If not, end the killing and worry about the rest later. It's taken a lot of years and numerous deaths to get this far, and we still have far to go.

What is seldom mentioned in print and normally only spoken of in classes, is one thing that is very hard for both LE and non-LE types to come to terms with, moving beyond the wounded. You are taught from day one, to help and treat the wounded, to get them assistance.
In this situation, what is seldom considered outside of LE is that you may have to step over a wounded person to move on to confront the shooter.
You're gonna be a heel to many for leaving someone bleeding to death in a hallway, but how many other's are getting killed while you're helping the one.

An active shooter situation in most cases is a nightmare that the schools don't want to consider, that the local population doesn't want to consider and the solution isn't easy, pretty or cheap and most places don't have the budget or stomach for this reality.

[Combat Controller]

Like the Israelis we are learning the lesson the hard way, but it seems we are learning it.

[Kommander]

The odd part is that once upon a time police knew this. Then this Officer Safety thing came in vogue and while it certainly did some good, it has lead to policies where the police seem more concerned with their safety than stopping the shooting.

Of course we all know that the solution to this does not lie with the police but rather the citizenry. In all of the attacks where there was armed resistance there were much lower casualty rates. This is what we should be aiming for.

[Netpackrat]

I know that there are members here who probably see me as being somewhat anti-police, but personally I have no problem at all with the police holding back long enough to assemble an entry force sufficient to minimize officer risk. I think that part of opposing the increasing militarization of our police forces, is recognizing that in all respects, they are NOT the military, and military concepts such as acceptable risk, losses, etc. do not apply to a civilian police force. At the end of the day, it is a job, and a police officer should have the same expectation of going home in once piece as an accountant, mechanic, or whatever.

As Kommander alluded to, the solution to this is an immediate armed response from citizens already on the scene (the militia, if you want to call it that). Traditionally, police power has been vested in the citizenry as a whole, not just in the small force we pay to devote full time attention to it, and I think that it is just as unfair to lay all of the inherent risk and responsibility on that small minority, as it is to deny that power and the means to the citizenry as a whole. So until we as a society take steps to recognize that defense against insane mass murderers is a shared responsibility, I don't have a problem with the police taking some time to get their shit together before charging into a dangerous situation.

[Kommander]

I agree with Chris. In a gun free zone where there is no chance for citizen resistance the police need to confront the shooter as quickly as possible. While they are getting their shit together allot of people can die. Like it or not this is a combat situation, or at least the closest thing police are likely to find in the US. They wanted all that military crap so instead of using it to serve a warrant on potheads they can use it in a situation that actually warrants its use.

I want to be clear here that I am only criticizing the Law Enforcement Organizations that fit my critiques, not individual officers or departments that have chosen to do something about this. Several moths ago I heard an interview with a training officer from the Phoenix PD and one of the things he talked about was making sure that his copes were well armed enough to face all threats while not making the citizens of Phoenix feel like they were living in a war zone.

[Combat Controller]

I worry slightly that if something happens and I respond, I might be mistaken as the threat. That is one reason I switched my trunk gun from an AK to an AR. I want folks to do a double take and wonder if I am a cop. All I need is long enough to identify myself as a good guy.

[308Mike]

I agree almost entirely NPR. However, so long as the police actively advocate against citizens defending themselves, they have a responsibility to accept those risks, and have it not be "just a job".

YUP - as long as those in govt employ advocate disarming and taking the responsibility of citizen safety upon themselves, THEY are now responsible for the tasks they asked for and denied to others.

Allow the citizens to arm themselves and respond to such threats as reasonable people, then the government is no longer responsible for their safety and security.

[Factfind]

Every school has a responsibility to educate their students and faculty about how to react to an active shooter scenario. Law enforcement’s goal is to locate, contain, and stop the shooter. A responsible community will ensure that it's L.E. are trained to standards that include individual and team movement skills, tactics, and strategies.

Failure to do so is a true breech of the public trust. That being said, putting your faith in L.E. to save you from any violent crime is absurd. They are not present, you are! Learn to defend your self.