carbon nanotube vs bullets

[Precision]

I've heard that if you're wearing armor that will stop a rifle bullet, and you get hit with a rifle bullet, you're still going to be out of the fight for the next hour or so because of the slam your body took. IOW you'll survive, but you won't be doing any fighting in this engagement.

From my chest plate testing, that does not seem to be at all true.

I used a double deep cereal box filled with fresh dug sand as my simulated chest. 35-50 lbs
The chest plate was affixed to the cereal box with a 4-5 inch strip of duct tape on either side.
This setup was then placed on top of a flat box.

I hit this setup with .223, .270, 7 mag, 7.62x54 from about 25 yards. None of these hits knocked the cereal box and chest plate off the box it sat on. When I hit it with a 12g slug, the contraption did come off the box, but not with any authority.

I have to believe that if none of these calibers could knock my contraption over, then a person would not be incapacitated in any way (other than fear) from a hit.

Now if you are talking about a soft only type of armor, that may well cause a different situation.

[randy]

I've heard that if you're wearing armor that will stop a rifle bullet, and you get hit with a rifle bullet, you're still going to be out of the fight for the next hour or so because of the slam your body took. IOW you'll survive, but you won't be doing any fighting in this engagement.

In addition to what others have said, there are way too many variables involved here to make this a general rule:

What caliber rifle? What type of bullet? Muzzle velocity? Range to impact? Angle of impact?

Type of armor? Small insertable impact plate vs larger full body plate? Clothing under body armor? Physical condition of target? Mental condition of target? Experience (i.e. new recruit vs. old salt veteran) of target?

[MarkD]

I've heard that if you're wearing armor that will stop a rifle bullet, and you get hit with a rifle bullet, you're still going to be out of the fight for the next hour or so because of the slam your body took. IOW you'll survive, but you won't be doing any fighting in this engagement.

From my chest plate testing, that does not seem to be at all true.

I used a double deep cereal box filled with fresh dug sand as my simulated chest. 35-50 lbs
The chest plate was affixed to the cereal box with a 4-5 inch strip of duct tape on either side.
This setup was then placed on top of a flat box.

I hit this setup with .223, .270, 7 mag, 7.62x54 from about 25 yards. None of these hits knocked the cereal box and chest plate off the box it sat on. When I hit it with a 12g slug, the contraption did come off the box, but not with any authority.

I have to believe that if none of these calibers could knock my contraption over, then a person would not be incapacitated in any way (other than fear) from a hit.

Now if you are talking about a soft only type of armor, that may well cause a different situation.

I stand corrected. Never been shot with or without armor, just reporting what I've read. Hey, I read it on the Internet, it must be correct!

[Aesop]

Physics and common sense notes that the slam to the body on armor from a bullet it defeats can't be any more devastating (and actually, has to be less due to energy lost in flight) than the slam the firer took in launching it.

With bullets defeated by armor (and a lot that aren't), people don't fall down because of the bullet. They fall down because they think they need to.
I've reduced 300# torso-tatted certified badass gang-bangers to screaming pussies with a 20g needle (think 2 1/2" of mechanical pencil lead-sized object) who walked in to the ER with 12 bullet holes or multiple stab wounds in them. It's the equivalent of a 95# Rottweiler cowering from a rolled up newspaper: mental conditioning short-circuiting reality.

Thus, if Obamacare Pajama Boy got hit with a rifle round in body armor, I suspect he'd probably be out of action for the balance of the decade, whereas Chuck Norris would pull it out with his teeth, spit it back at the firer, blowing their head clean off, then he'd roundhouse kick that head into anyone else with them, and pick up the 7-10 spare left over with a harsh look.

[HTRN]

Thus, if Obamacare Pajama Boy got hit with a rifle round in body armor, I suspect he'd probably be out of action for the balance of the decade, whereas Chuck Norris would pull it out with his teeth, spit it back at the firer, blowing their head clean off, then he'd roundhouse kick that head into anyone else with them, and pick up the 7-10 spare left over with a harsh look.

I nominate this for post of the week.

[308Mike]

Thus, if Obamacare Pajama Boy got hit with a rifle round in body armor, I suspect he'd probably be out of action for the balance of the decade, whereas Chuck Norris would pull it out with his teeth, spit it back at the firer, blowing their head clean off, then he'd roundhouse kick that head into anyone else with them, and pick up the 7-10 spare left over with a harsh look.

I nominate this for post of the week.

I CONCUR!!!

[MarkD]

'Physics and common sense notes that the slam to the body on armor from a bullet it defeats can't be any more devastating (and actually, has to be less due to energy lost in flight) than the slam the firer took in launching it.'

I've been thinking about this for a couple days, and something didn't sit right. I finally figured it out.

I'm just going by my personal experience with high-power, non magnum rifles, in particular a Mosin Nagant 91/30 and a good ol' M1 Garand Rifle, 7.62x54R and .30'06 respectively.

About once per range trip with these rifles I'll neglect to pull it in tight to my shoulder, so it gets a running start before it smacks me, and it kinda smarts. Not knock-me-down smarts, but ouch-don't-do-that-again smarts. If I'm really stupid that day and do it more than once or twice I'll have a lovely bruise on my shoulder. If I pull it in tight I roll with the recoil and I don't find it at all unpleasant. The running start is probably a fraction of an inch, it's touching my shoulder (or at least the shirt and jacket I'm wearing), and it's on the meaty part of my shoulder. I really don't think I'd care to hold either rifle three inches in front of my sternum and set it off, and I can certainly imagine wanting to sit down and catch my breath if I did.

My understanding is that, especially with older armor, if you got hit with a full-power rifle you were still likely to have a cracked rib if the shot was so placed. Getting hit center chest would knock the wind out of you. Perhaps the newer armor is better? Maybe the plates spread out the impact better, or slow it down more gradually so you don't get such a thump?

Well, that's all I have to say about THAT.

[Aglifter]

Think PSI

[Aesop]

My understanding is that, especially with older armor, if you got hit with a full-power rifle you were still likely to have a cracked rib if the shot was so placed. Getting hit center chest would knock the wind out of you. Perhaps the newer armor is better? Maybe the plates spread out the impact better, or slow it down more gradually so you don't get such a thump?

That's both placement, and concentration of force.
If you fired you M1 thumper with the butt on your diaphragm, that would knock the wind out of you too.
If you whittled the buttstock to a .30 blunt point, that would crack a bone upon which it rested.
Both surprising no one.

But neither would knock you ass over teakettle, arms and leg flailing as you flew backwards through the air. Those responses require a stunt air ram and steel cable, or a soccer diva trolling to sell a yellow card to the opposing team.

Unless you hit the brainstem or spinal column, bullets don't knock people down, ever.
Cause pain, yes. Break a bone, even under armor, yeah.
But not take you down.

I've stepped barefoot onto broken crockery or glass moving at 0 MPH that brought me down, but that was the pain loop in my head and a lack of balance while in motion, and a reasonable desire not to have to dig the pieces from an even deeper hole, not the brute kinetic force of the jagged piece of whatever I stepped on.

So except in certain instances, bullets and their effects on people hit by them are the ultimate expression and practical demonstration of assymetrical warfare, or what tankers call a Mobility Kill.

[MarkD]

Looking back over my earlier posts, I'm trying to see where I said anything about flying thru the air, being knocked over, etc. I said the effects of being hit by a high-power rifle bullet while wearing body armor were likely to be 1) it hurts 2) if the hit is over bone, the bone may break 3) if hit in an appropriate place it'll knock the wind out of you, leaving you gasping for air and 4) the combination of 1-3 means you don't feel too good and likely won't be fighting back with full efficiency for a while until you get your breath back and your brain tells your body to nevermind the pain, there's business to attend to.