Around the Water Cooler: More 2010 Previews

[SeekHer]

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Around the Water Cooler: More 2010 Previews
by Rich Grassi

We're still getting previews of products to be "officially announced" in a few short weeks at SHOT in Las Vegas. For example, our friends at Winchester are giving us some idea of ammo to be made available in 2010.

Their Supreme Elite Bonded PDX1 self defense line will be increased by the inclusion of a 95 grain .380 ACP load and a .45 Colt load, designed for the Taurus Judge, that features a 225 grain bonded bullet.

The Supreme Elite PDX1 line moves into shotgun ammo with the combination of three plated 00 buck pellets atop a one ounce power point slug! A reduced recoil load, it'll be sold in 10-round boxes, available in March 2010. Similarly, they have a Supreme Elite .410 load, again for the Taurus Judge. This load features 3 "unique plated Defense Disc projectiles and 12 plated BBs."

Kel-Tec put out a SHOT 2010 preview of the PMR-30 pistol. A 13 ½ ounce, ca. 4-inch barrel, 30-shot .22 Magnum semiauto pistol. It's a single action with an ambidextrous manual safety with fiber optic sights, heel magazine release, and an under-barrel Picatinny rail. With a projected muzzle velocity of around 1230 fps, it's sort-of like a 5.7 pistol - but at a lower cost, with ammo you can find locally. This will be an interesting field gun. If it's accurate, it'll be handy on the trail.

Add the Glock Generation 4 - and the guns we showed from Bushmaster, DPMS and Remington - and it's apparent it'll be quite a show, January 19 in Las Vegas.

And, of course, we'll keep you posted.

[Aegis]

The Supreme Elite PDX1 line moves into shotgun ammo with the combination of three plated 00 buck pellets atop a one ounce power point slug! A reduced recoil load, it'll be sold in 10-round boxes, available in March 2010.

The idea behind these things always intrigued me, but it just seems a bit like it's neither here nor there. Not really enough pellets to make the increased hit probability really worth the extra weight and recoil, and a slug to punch through... what, exactly? A human body? I'd much rather just keep both styles of shells available on the buttstock shell holder.

Not that I won't pick up a box or two of the stuff, just for the hell of it. Sounds fascinating.

[Dedicated_Dad]

The Supreme Elite PDX1 line moves into shotgun ammo with the combination of three plated 00 buck pellets atop a one ounce power point slug! A reduced recoil load, it'll be sold in 10-round boxes, available in March 2010.

The idea behind these things always intrigued me, but it just seems a bit like it's neither here nor there. Not really enough pellets to make the increased hit probability really worth the extra weight and recoil, and a slug to punch through... what, exactly? A human body? I'd much rather just keep both styles of shells available on the buttstock shell holder.

Not that I won't pick up a box or two of the stuff, just for the hell of it. Sounds fascinating.

Personally, I'd be more interested in a slug designed to fragment - for example, it's sliced in (say) 8 pieces around the rim of a central mass - then pressed back together.

Add a a HP, designed to be likely to send the 8 pieces in different directions while the central mass goes relatively straight -- preferably taking a couple of inches of penetration before the "split" occurs...

Devastating, if it could be made to work...

This is how I see the "buck and ball" rounds - not likely to improve poor aim, but sure to poke more big-ish holes when it hits...

DD

[Mike OTDP]

The Supreme Elite PDX1 line moves into shotgun ammo with the combination of three plated 00 buck pellets atop a one ounce power point slug! A reduced recoil load, it'll be sold in 10-round boxes, available in March 2010.

The idea behind these things always intrigued me, but it just seems a bit like it's neither here nor there. Not really enough pellets to make the increased hit probability really worth the extra weight and recoil, and a slug to punch through... what, exactly? A human body? I'd much rather just keep both styles of shells available on the buttstock shell holder.

Not that I won't pick up a box or two of the stuff, just for the hell of it. Sounds fascinating.

It's a modern version of the old buck-and-ball load. Buckshot for increased hit probability, ball for longer range.

[workinwifdakids]

Absolutely, DD. I like your idea where the slug is designed to completely separate along divergent paths on impact, with a hollow contact point up front. I think that four orange-sliced pieces down the vertical axis would be a good idea. I drew up a modest concept here:

Thoughts?

edit: if my math is correct, that would be four 110GR projectiles.

[SeekHer]

It will work, it won't work and you don't want it to do that!

28.35 grams (g) or 437.5 grains (gr) to an ounce…

The four 109.375 gr sections or eight 54.685 gr sections require some way of being told they have to separate like maybe a pointy piece of soft plastic stuffed into the meplat that slides into the cavity when it strikes, say flesh, rams itself down and the sections fly apart, that blunt meplat just may not do it...

This is what you really don’t want it to do primarily because you will not get any penetration and it is penetration that causes shock, tissue damage and blood loss…Now if you can somehow get that slug to shatter into the four or eight pieces after penetrating maybe three or four inches that would cause even more damage but you wouldn’t be liked by the police or military because of all the law suits and contravening the Hague Convention and operating room EMS teams would be cursing you to the seventh level of Hell…

Now, if you can get it to expand, violently, retain all its mass, but open up (flower or mushroom) to four, five maybe six times its diameter then you’d have an excellent round…Something like this
Hornady S/HD ammo:


but with larger petals like this Speer Grand Slam


but the petals have been flattened down with handling…Then you'd have a winner!

Good read on slug performance Dixie Slugs Force Factor: Bullets and Game: What Really Happens…
These slugs are supposed to be the most devastating made but I’ve only read about them…

[Netpackrat]

Clue to the ammo makers for 2010: We'd be happier if you'd just concentrate on making your existing products available in quantity.

[Greg]

Clue to the ammo makers for 2010: We'd be happier if you'd just concentrate on making your existing products available in quantity.

Hear, hear! I'd like to buy some ammo, but nothing I want to buy is in stock anywhere.... so I keep my money. (hint, hint)

[JAG2955]

Kel-Tec put out a SHOT 2010 preview of the PMR-30 pistol. A 13 ½ ounce, ca. 4-inch barrel, 30-shot .22 Magnum semiauto pistol. It's a single action with an ambidextrous manual safety with fiber optic sights, heel magazine release, and an under-barrel Picatinny rail.

Heel magazine release? What is, this, Europe? Is there any appeal to that at all? I do like Kel-Tec's products though.

I'm expecting the release date of the Remington ACR to be announced at SHOT this year.