Buying an Anvil...Advice please

[JAG2955]

Nifty, but unfortunately, the guy sold it before I could meet up to see it. I don't know who has the free hours of 0900-1300, but it sure isn't my job. I don't think it would have been worth the $250, with the edges being so badly damaged, I would have bought it anyways if he would have cut the price in half.

I'm still on the lookout. There's a great coal-forge setup for an awesome price that I found, but it's nearly six hours away from me. I'll wait for that one, in the meantime, I'll get a cheap belt sander (Craftsman sale today!) and learn how to do the stock removal method first.

Thanks guys.

[Highspeed]

I've decided when I move to Spain I'm going to start making knives again.

I made knives some years ago, but stopped because the disused commercial property right next to us was converted into a dwelling. The smoke from my forge and all the hammering would have caused no end of problems, right against their house, so I gave it up because there wasn't anywhere to re-site the working area that was practical. By that time I'd got my firearm dealers licence so I just went into gunsmithing instead.

I used a railroad track anvil and a variation of the brake drum forge plans from Jim Hrisoulas's Complete Bladesmith book. I'd just about got to the stage of making Damascus - kind of - I never made a billet that was welded properly and fit to make a blade out of.

Unless you plan on general blacksmithing instead of making knives I'd suggest getting a big lump of generic steel for an anvil. I wouldn't personally make another railroad track one myself. They work fine, but the noise that comes off them during use is borderline painful ( and that's coming from someone who used to go to punk rock gigs )

I'm starting to make some of the knifemaking tools I'll need out there. I'm doing it now while I've still got access to full workshop equipment and know where I can source things I need. It'll take me a while to get set up again with machinery out there, and while I've got functional Spanish I don't yet know how to say " Eyup mate, have you got any offcuts of water hardening carbon steel hanging around ? if so let me have them for the price of a beer when your gaffer isn't looking "

I don't know if it'll be of any interest to you but my next project is going to be a 'Sen' - the drawknife that the Japs used to shape their swords after rough forging. Except brought into the 20th century for people who don't go all googley eyed at that Zen lotus blossom bullshit and mysticism which seems attached to anything oriental

I highly recommend this video :- http://www.amazon.com/Knifemaking-Unplu ... B000M5AUOY it's full of good stuff.

[Highspeed]

Some more thoughts :-

I don't know where you are at in the metalworking skills stage, but I'd urge you to learn what used to be called 'benchwork' here in the UK - that's basically using files, scrapers and hacksaws. It's the foundation of everything else which follows, and something you can build on. I have no idea what it's called in the US, but you get the idea ?

I learned it initially because my I wanted to be like my mentor ( a foul mouthed, borderline alcoholic old school machinist who apprenticed in the 1950's - so maybe not exactly like him ) - he did a whole years training before he was even let anywhere near a machine tool.

Once you have those core skills it's amazing what you can do with them. It's also timesaving - I know it probably doesn't translate to knifemaking, but if I can profile a piece of metal accurately enough using handtools instead of having to make some weird setup for the milling machine for a one-off job then that's money in the bank.

Regarding anvils, you shouldn't worry too much about the surface. It can be as flat as Paris Hiltons chest, but you'll still mark the steel from the hammer blows and the scale which gets under and over the workpiece. I'm sure some big random lump of steel will do you just fine, as long as it's mostly Paris Hilton on the working surface.

If I was you right now I'd be looking for material to make a really sturdy workbench, some good quality files, a couple of good quality vices to go on that bench ( one conventional heavy duty engineering type, another multi-angle ) and forget about the anvil until you can scrounge one from somewhere.

[ZeroGravitas]

JAG,
one of the excellent seller of good anvils is Matchless Antiques on ebay. The seller is noted on the Anvilfire page as a good resource, and it's who I bought my anvil from. I went through about 25-30 auctions until the right piece at the right price came up. If you buy one that's less than 150#, shipping is reasonable. Mine was 147#. IIRC, it was $260 plus 60 for shipping.

Expect to pay more than the scrap price of steel.

[HTRN]

a foul mouthed, borderline alcoholic old school machinist

You know, in theory, there are well spoken, teatotaling, old school machinists... But I've never met one.

I used a railroad track anvil and a variation of the brake drum forge plans from Jim Hrisoulas's Complete Bladesmith book. I'd just about got to the stage of making Damascus - kind of - I never made a billet that was welded properly and fit to make a blade out of.

I'm not personally crazy about coal forges, they may be simpler to build, and cheaper to operate, but for most people, getting ahold of fuel is PITA. Propane/Cooking Gas/Whatever you want to call it is alot easier to come by, and is cleaner and easier to control. Forges are somewhat more difficult to make, notably the burner, but even that isn't too bad if you simply buy the mixer and nozzle, and just add black pipe. A freon bottle or 20 lb propane bottle is easily cut up for a forge, and stuffed with insulation. If you don't already have it, Goddard's 50 dollar knife shop shows a bunch of ideas for grinders and forges.

And oh VV another tool that comes in hand in the smithy VV

[Highspeed]

I'm not personally crazy about coal forges, they may be simpler to build, and cheaper to operate, but for most people, getting ahold of fuel is PITA.

I settled on charcoal eventually, not the burns-away-to-nothing-in-5-seconds-flat easy lighting briquette kind, the lumpwood variety ( which is cheaper here, so it's a win-win situation )

In Spain I can make my own charcoal - they have violent storms a few times a year which smash down whole swathes of trees and you can just cut them up and carry them away. Wood is basically free to the rural self reliant types.

Initially I used coal in my forge ( not difficult for me to source, I can literally dig it out of the ground where I live ) but I found it's a pain to use. You spend a lot of time just screwing around getting the fire right which might be better employed actually making blades.

Of propane forges I know nothing.

[HTRN]

Believe it or not, the Briquettes burn longer than typical lump charcoal.

[Combat Controller]

I thought you gave up on Spain HS?

BTW, I'm in London the 2nd-6th of June.... Otherwise in France and Spain for three weeks.

[blackeagle603]

but I'd urge you to learn what used to be called 'benchwork' here in the UK - that's basically using files, scrapers and hacksaws.

Amen. Preach it brother. It was drudgery at the time and I never got to the full measure of skill but am thankful for the school shop teachers and later VocTech instructors who saddled us with initial projects all done with hand (bench) work.

Cutting and filing steel blocks to square is a metric pain in the arse.

One of those teachers (the gunsmith next door) demonstrated often his ability to hand file and eyeball to 0.005". Remarkable his ability to rapidly hand form a dovetail block from scratch w/ no measurement. He made a lot of replacement parts for antique firearms. Often forming, heat treating, and all w/out prints being available.

[HTRN]

The problem with focusing on benchwork, is that it's not the majority of the job in the machine shop these days. And I too of heard of the "good ole' days" where you were handed a file, a mike, and a lump of steel, and told to file it into a 2" square.. Then a 1.5" sphere. Then a 1" triangle..