Are enlisted (USAF) airmen next to pilot UAVs?

[308Mike]

Linkarooni

Are enlisted airmen next to pilot UAVs?

By Michael Hoffman - Staff writer
Posted : Sunday Dec 21, 2008 13:18:36 EST

The Air Force is desperate for UAV pilots, yet it stands alone among the services in its policy that only officers are allowed to fly large unmanned aerial vehicles.

But next month, in a reversal of policy, 10 nonrated officers — those without aviation training — will begin instruction on flying Predator and Reaper UAVs. could enlisted airmen be next?

Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz left open the possibility immediately after he approved allowing nonrated officers to fly UAVs.

More of this story..............

[Mike OTDP]

Not bloody likely.

These are NOT radio-controlled model airplanes with a camcorder bolted to the bottom. You're talking about many millions of dollars worth of hardware...sometimes with weapons delivery capability. It's a legitimate officer responsibility.

And I would be very, very careful to look under the hood of "unrated" pilots. You'll find that they ARE rated...by the FAA. The number of personnel on active duty who are not military pilots but have private licenses is quite significant. And the services are waking up to the realization that these people can be converted to unmanned aviation without too much trouble. The skill sets for flying a tactical jet are NOT those applicable for flying an advanced unmanned aircraft.

[TabascoKid]

Not bloody likely.

These are NOT radio-controlled model airplanes with a camcorder bolted to the bottom. You're talking about many millions of dollars worth of hardware...sometimes with weapons delivery capability. It's a legitimate officer responsibility.

So it takes a commissioned officer to be in command of an USAF UAV due to its multi-million dollar cost and its weapons delivery capability but a NCO can in charge of an Army main battle tank despite its multi-million dollar cost and weapons delivery capability?

[Rod]

Not bloody likely.

These are NOT radio-controlled model airplanes with a camcorder bolted to the bottom. You're talking about many millions of dollars worth of hardware...sometimes with weapons delivery capability. It's a legitimate officer responsibility.

So it takes a commissioned officer to be in command of an USAF UAV due to its multi-million dollar cost and its weapons delivery capability but a NCO can in charge of an Army main battle tank despite its multi-million dollar cost and weapons delivery capability?

At certain times, I had Spec 4s as tank commanders who were probably better than a LOT of NCO's and officers. What about the flying NCOs during WW I and WW II? What about warrents?

[First Shirt]

So you can let an E-4 intel puke decide where to send the UAV, and expend its thousands of dollars worth of ordnance, but they're too stupid to fly the UAV in the first place?

I've known O-3s that couldn't be trusted to find the head on their own, and I've flown missions where the de facto aircraft commander was the airborne mission supervisor, who was an E-6.

NO offense to the former officers on board here, but officers in general are a highly over-rated commodity.

[Mike OTDP]

Whine all you want to, guys. I'm simply stating the facts of modern military life. The mission commander for a heavy unmanned aircraft is almost certainly going to be a comissioned officer.

[workinwifdakids]

No whining here, I'm just imagining an air-conditioned room commanded by a veteran pilot, an intel weenie, and about a half-dozen pilot consoles manned by NCOs who were brought in because they have 300,000 experience points on a MMORPG.

And I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

[Dedicated_Dad]

No whining here, I'm just imagining an air-conditioned room commanded by a veteran pilot, an intel weenie, and about a half-dozen pilot consoles manned by NCOs who were brought in because they have 300,000 experience points on a MMORPG.

And I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

I'm not positive about the "MMORPG" per-se, but I think you're otherwise spot-on.

Remember the old movie - can't recall the title - where the kid set the record high-score on an arcade game and aliens showed up to make him a fighter-pilot in their intergalactic war...?? nowhutuhmean??

I don't think the idea's too far-fetched for DARPA to develop a UAV-based "FPS" then recruit the crop of "wizards" to man the aforementioned "air-conditioned room." Ordnance decisions will probably require HQ approval (maybe even a couple of "officer password" entries to arm??) but...

Likewise, I think the same will probably be done for the robotic platforms as well. A remote-controlled robot wielding a SAW and a couple of grenade-launchers is no doubt already in the works. Likewise, there's some awesome work being done with "exoskeleton" robotics - when this is perfected and armored... WOW!

The fact is that there are no doubt many, many (MANY!) kids out there who have the "skillz" to fly a UAV - most likely even better than "real pilots" - but lack the physical (or even intellectual/psychological) qualifications to make it through Flight School.

With the advent of UAVs and other robotic weapons we're going to see a lot of kids who would otherwise be pretty much "4F" placed in control of them - why not let "the best of the best" do your "fighting" when there's no real difference (from the operator's perspective) from a video game?

I think we'll still need pilots, though fewer of them. We'll still need Infantry as well, though probably fewer of them as well. I don't care if the kid "playing the video game" controlling the UAV or robot-gun is the fattest super-dork in the state, just so he's the best at what he does.

I think it will take a while for the change to come about - the .mil is always resistant to change - but I also think it's inevitable. The guys on the ground will demand the best when "rank" gets a few of them killed...

Hope this made sense...

DD

[randy]

but lack the physical (or even intellectual/psychological) qualifications to make it through Flight School.

Sorry, if they can't hack the intellectual, and especially the psychological, requirements for flight school, they have no business "playing games" with solid flying objects in a crowded 3-dimensional battlespace filled with other UAVs and manned aircraft supporting real troops on the ground. There's a lot more to participating in a Joint Air Ground force operation than yanking and banking and pulling a trigger. I'd also want to be damned sure the person on that stick is psychologically stable enough to know when NOT to pull the trigger, even when mission orders dictate that he do. And not to go into Kamikaze mode just because he can get up and walk over to the snack bar after impact, in spite of the fact he just left a hole in the Air Tasking Order that could leave his fellow's, in the air and on the ground, hanging in the wind.

With the advent of UAVs and other robotic weapons we're going to see a lot of kids who would otherwise be pretty much "4F" placed in control of them

I would count that as a mistake, against the day when those folks might need to be pulled and place in a more active military duty. Prime examples are the thousands of Airmen and Sailors that have been deployed to support the Army the past 7 years or so "in lieu of" soldiers. I'm a firm believer in the Marine thought process of being a Rifleman first. Every member needs to be physically and mentally able to switch modes to direct combat if the situation warrants it.

Now, as to whether the uniforms of those physically and mentally qualified persons have enlisted or officer rank, I think you can argue it either way, and a lot would depend on the particular mission. For a strategic or tactical nuclear strike I would want a group of senior company junior field grades running the mission and making the final release authority. For tank plinking, CAS and Battlefield Air Interdiction, then Senior NCO's and Warrant Officers in lead billets with juniors following their lead would probably be sufficent

[First Shirt]

Whine all you want to, guys. I'm simply stating the facts of modern military life. The mission commander for a heavy unmanned aircraft is almost certainly going to be a comissioned officer.

I'm not whining, I'm retired. But I can remember when the officer corps was outraged over the Compass Cope program, because of all the flying billets they would lose if it replaced the Rivet Joint. The fact that Cope was a better platform, that produced superior results with less cost was total irrelevant to the Zipper-Suited Sun Gods.

There are too many officers that are "Mission First" unless it adversely impacts their promotion potential.