USN takes DDG out of service

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D5CAV
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USN takes DDG out of service

Post by D5CAV »

... because CO is not vaccinated :lol:

I'm sure Xi and Putin are quaking in their boots rights now...

...from laughter. Yeah, you can't make this stuff up: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... script.pdf

The CO is not named.

USN says ship is inop, but judge asks:
On February 28th, when the defendants filed this motion stating that your destroyer was indefinitely sidelined and effectively out of commission, where were you?
CO says he was doing his job:
A. I was out at sea.
Q. How were you out at sea, Commander?
A. I was commanding my warship on a two-week underway period conducting training exercises.
Next, maybe a SSBN on station in the South China Sea gets taken out of service because some LGBTQRST crewperson is suffering from CPTSD :lol:
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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Vonz90
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Re: USN takes DDG out of service

Post by Vonz90 »

It is actually more asinine. The .Nav wants to remove the CO (supposedly not vaccine related but who knkws) but has been stopped by a judge.

I have no opinion if the CO should be relieved or not but having a judge inject himself onto the question is very bad.
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D5CAV
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Re: USN takes DDG out of service

Post by D5CAV »

Vonz90 wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:09 pm It is actually more asinine. The .Nav wants to remove the CO (supposedly not vaccine related but who knkws) but has been stopped by a judge.

I have no opinion if the CO should be relieved or not but having a judge inject himself onto the question is very bad.
I don't know all the history of this case, if you have information that the USN is relieving the CO for reasons other than vaccination status, please share that.

I read through the transcript. It is one-sided because it is the testimony of the CO. He is being questioned by his own counsel and the USN's counsel. Most of the questions are about vaccination status and whether or not that affects operational readiness.

The reason this is in front of a federal judge and not UCMJ is that the CO brought the case against vaccination based on religious exemption on 1st Amendment grounds.
I'm here today because the military is not executing this policy while respecting the constitutional freedoms laid out in the First Amendment or RFRA. I should not be the one standing here to say that today; generals and admirals, the executives in our service, should be here to say that to the politics, to the bureaucracy, to their decision-making. It should also not be my junior sailors or the hundreds of thousands of military servicemen out there to say, "Hey, I have a religious objection to this. Why is no one not speaking out that we can do this and still do the job, the mission?" That's for me to do when my superiors will not.

I understand that I took an oath to the Constitution, that is what my oath is, and it's different than the enlisted oath,
which is to follow orders. Every general on flag takes the same oath as me, to uphold the Constitution, to bear true faith
and allegiance to the Constitution and the country whose course it directs. That requires that I know the Constitution.
Our religious freedoms are being attacked. And when I read the declaration that talks about, you know, there are no
less restrictive means other than vaccination, and they use examples in there such as, you know, the port entry
requirements such as the pre-ROM deployment sequester. Those are less restrictive means in and of themselves.
There are many references to vaccination status and whether or not vaccination impacts operation of the ship, so vaccination is clearly the main issues here.

There are no questions around reasons other than refusal to get vaccinated, even by the USN's counsel.

I don't have the USN's filing to get the motion dismissed or the original USN action. Those might have some other reasons for dismissing the CO and taking the DDG out of service.

If you do, please share.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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blackeagle603
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Re: USN takes DDG out of service

Post by blackeagle603 »

Wow, read all that. The process really is the punishment
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Vonz90
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Re: USN takes DDG out of service

Post by Vonz90 »

D5CAV wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:32 pm
Vonz90 wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:09 pm It is actually more asinine. The .Nav wants to remove the CO (supposedly not vaccine related but who knkws) but has been stopped by a judge.

I have no opinion if the CO should be relieved or not but having a judge inject himself onto the question is very bad.
I don't know all the history of this case, if you have information that the USN is relieving the CO for reasons other than vaccination status, please share that.
I only know that is the stated reason his superior is giving. AKA "loss of command confidence" which may be for good reason or bad but traditionally is rather absolute.
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D5CAV
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Re: USN takes DDG out of service

Post by D5CAV »

Vonz90 wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:12 pm I only know that is the stated reason his superior is giving. AKA "loss of command confidence" which may be for good reason or bad but traditionally is rather absolute.
Yes, and that is exactly my point :lol:

Back in the antediluvian age, "loss of command confidence" was because all of your tanks were deadlined or your troops were still in their bunks 24 hours after a mobilization was called.

That's why most of the questions in the 50 pages of transcript are around his how quickly his ship was ready for sea and how it was performing in sea trials.

According to this 50 page transcript, the "loss of command confidence" was because of his failure to get vaccinated.

I'm waiting for some SSBN commanded by an "old school" Captain Ramsey who "triggers" some LGBTQRST crewperson causing "xer" CPTST and having the SSBN taken out of service because of "loss of command confidence". :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFtKdpDkHIU
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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Vonz90
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Re: USN takes DDG out of service

Post by Vonz90 »

D5CAV wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:52 am
Vonz90 wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:12 pm I only know that is the stated reason his superior is giving. AKA "loss of command confidence" which may be for good reason or bad but traditionally is rather absolute.
Yes, and that is exactly my point :lol:

Back in the antediluvian age, "loss of command confidence" was because all of your tanks were deadlined or your troops were still in their bunks 24 hours after a mobilization was called.

According to this 50 page transcript, the "loss of command confidence" was because of his failure to get vaccinated.

I'm waiting for some SSBN commanded by an "old school" Captain Ramsey who "triggers" some LGBTQRST crewperson causing "xer" CPTST and having the SSBN taken out of service because of "loss of command confidence". :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFtKdpDkHIU
It was stated ot was not the Vax staus. Could be a pretext or could be real. As I said, I don't know.

Actually, I don't care. I do not think forcing someone to get the Vax is a good idea, but it is a lawful order and similar orders for vaccination are not uncommon (I have been on both end of that equation). It is what it is, lawful order, follow it.
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D5CAV
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Re: USN takes DDG out of service

Post by D5CAV »

Vonz90 wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:00 am It is what it is, lawful order, follow it.
That is why it is in front of a federal judge.

If it was failing to follow a lawful order, it would be in front of a UCMJ.

The question is whether a vaccination order is a lawful order under the US Constitution.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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Vonz90
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Re: USN takes DDG out of service

Post by Vonz90 »

D5CAV wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:06 am
Vonz90 wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:00 am It is what it is, lawful order, follow it.
That is why it is in front of a federal judge.

If it was failing to follow a lawful order, it would be in front of a UCMJ.

The question is whether a vaccination order is a lawful order under the US Constitution.
They have been for a very long time. A bunch of shots I would not have gotten except the .mil wanted me to (and extremely ill for some of them). I do not see why this situation is different.
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D5CAV
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Re: USN takes DDG out of service

Post by D5CAV »

Vonz90 wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:09 amThey have been for a very long time. A bunch of shots I would not have gotten except the .mil wanted me to (and extremely ill for some of them). I do not see why this situation is different.
Good point.

I'm suffering from hearing loss because of stuff the US Army made me do that I disagreed with.

Their answer is "go to the VA and get some hearing aids".
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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